I'm very interested in collaboration on tooling. People interested in
collaborating with people watching this list should absolutely not be shy.

The awkward thing, though, is that this forum is narrowly good at these
things:

   - Establishing consensus or lack thereof on technical decisions
   - Formalizing requirements with consensus
   - Raising some amount of awareness in preparation for the above

There is a lot of interesting work to do that doesn't look like those
things. For instance, developing proofs of concepts for ideas or
implementing new standard features for existing projects.

I don't expect that, outside of fairly simple and straightforward
initiatives or raising general awareness, jumping straight into discussion
on this mailing list would be the most productive approach. An initial
email here gauging appetite for an idea is good. Sharing initial research
for feedback also works well. If interactive discussion is interesting, I
suggest formatting that research into some sort of paper, and a meeting of
the Tooling Study Group will be scheduled to discuss and/or poll on
consensus.

My main concern is that I don't have specific ideas of a lower cost, less
official, and more efficient venue -- somewhere to work on projects and
problems as opposed to papers. I'm of the mind that some sort of "ecosystem
evolution" community needs to be intentionally formed if we're going to
gain enough momentum on problems like standards for build system or
packaging standards. Assuming some plausibiities emerge there, I would want
to see them brought back to ISO for the purposes of clearly defining at
least interop requirements.

Bret Brown

On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 5:13 AM Harald Achitz via SG15 <
sg15_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> Did you have a look at any of the documents?
>
> My impression is, that, for example, a document called `Capabilities of
> build and deployment tools` has at least some relation to what we try to
> define here.
>
> That nobody there is specialized on C++ and that the point of view is a
> broader one is obvious.
>
> I just thought, given the fact that not too many people are very active
> here in SG15, and that there are people out there who care about the topic
> in general, it might be worth to see if there could be synergies.
>
> But if there is zero interest, then maybe not.
>
> I just fear, with the give resources, we will not come very far with any
> of the topics we wish would be addressed in the C++ eco system.
>
> /Harald
> On 2023-06-13 14:14, Michael Spencer wrote:
>
> The Ecosystem IS is currently focused on C++ specific issues that tools
> need to deal with. Looking at the entire list of published standards from
> SC 7/WG 4 starting in 1995, they are entirely focused on tools for aiding
> in "software engineering", where that is interpreted the same way as civil
> engineering. They do not work on any standards related to any tools that
> the Ecosystem IS would ever cover.
>
> - Michael Spencer
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 11:57 AM Harald Achitz via SG15 <
> sg15_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I have a question
>>
>>
>>
>> There is ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 7/WG 4
>> which translates to Software and systems engineering/Tools and environment
>>
>> And there is ongoing work regarding build and deployment tools.
>>
>> I found some documents
>>
>> ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 7/WG 4 N 1572
>> Base Document of PWI Build_Deployment_Tools, 221104
>> There might be newer versions.
>>
>> ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 7/WG 4 N 1586
>> NWIP_ballot_documen of NP_Capabilities of build and deployment tools
>>
>> ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 7/WG 4 N 1571
>> Summary of PWI Build_Deploy_Tools_221104
>> (thats basically a presentation)
>>
>> There might be more. It's still a bit hard for me to navigate the ISO
>> database, and I do not have the time I wish I would have for those
>> topics.
>> So there might be more. However
>> I wonder if it has been considered to look over the boarder from SC 22 ,
>> see what's going on and try to create a liaison.
>>
>> Especially in the context of the upcoming work on ecosystem-is.
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Harald
>> _______________________________________________
>> SG15 mailing list
>> SG15_at_[hidden]
>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg15
>>
> _______________________________________________
> SG15 mailing list
> SG15_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg15
>