Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 19:23:14 +0000
Oops, this time using correct domain suffix for tooling_at_...
From: Herb Sutter
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 11:06 AM
To: Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash <brycelelbach_at_[hidden]>; tooling_at_[hidden]
Cc: Titus Winters <titus_at_[hidden]>
Subject: RE: [isocpp-all] Survey 2018-02 results posted to the JAX wiki
+tooling@ (our newest reflector, for SG15 – note all@ is for announcements only)
Hi Bryce,
> it seems like one of the more common set of asks is: standardizex package
> management and a standardized build system.
Yes, that’s definitely a need that the community feels and shows up in the verbatims.
> We don't have any word clouds/etc for the write ins yet, correct?
SurveyMonkey reports the word cloud generation is a known bug and they’re working on it, but no ETA. But that’s only holding back my public posting of the results… I hope to find a fix or workaround in the next few days and post the summary with word clouds on isocpp.org.
Herb
From: Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash [mailto:brycelelbach_at_[hidden]]
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 7:51 PM
To: Herb Sutter <hsutter_at_microsoft.com<mailto:hsutter_at_[hidden]>>
Cc: all_at_lists.isocpp.org<mailto:all_at_[hidden]>
Subject: Re: [isocpp-all] Survey 2018-02 results posted to the JAX wiki
At a glance, it seems like one of the more common set of asks is: standardizex package management and a standardized build system.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 7:43 PM Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash <brycelelbach_at_[hidden]<mailto:brycelelbach_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
Ah, nevermind, I misunderstood. We don't have any word clouds/etc for the write ins yet, correct?
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 7:39 PM Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash <brycelelbach_at_[hidden]<mailto:brycelelbach_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
Herb,
The summary doesn't show anything for the written questions, at least for me.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 12:42 PM Herb Sutter via All <all_at_[hidden]<mailto:all_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
Dear WG21 members,
Last Monday, the Standard C++ Foundation ran its first C++ Developer Survey “Lite” 2018-02<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fblog%2F2018%2F02%2Fnew-cpp-foundation-developer-survey-lite-2018-02&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=fXdw8Wu%2Bvc7FoWo%2FvmJJsDo64FAlWIDT8Dbz8kjT42U%3D&reserved=0>. We let it run a full week, our community generously contributed 3,286 responses.
For the committee (posted on the wiki): On the Jacksonville wiki Documents page<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.edg.com%2Fbin%2Fview%2FWg21jacksonville2018%2FDocuments&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=VIpatupf%2FqeVXhKVcQ8Mv1lTUckLo%2Bk9KXqalckId4g%3D&reserved=0>, you will find two PDF files:
* A 24-pg summary<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.edg.com%2Fpub%2FWg21jacksonville2018%2FDocuments%2FCppDevSurvey-2018-02-summary.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=es9vunuUT35fEjojrjrXBMzkIV7UPRJYGCU3FE78TLE%3D&reserved=0> containing statistical answers to the non-write-in questions.
* A 334-pg set of full written answers<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.edg.com%2Fpub%2FWg21jacksonville2018%2FDocuments%2FCppDevSurvey-2018-02-writeins.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=RISg0Vo%2B9yoHgy1IQt76GDjd%2BjJhb6%2BzouLSnqT8RjU%3D&reserved=0> to the five write-in questions.
I encourage you to make use of this data – discuss (L)EWG-informative insights on the evolution reflectors, mine it to improve/support your proposals, keyword-search it to see what our community members are saying about specific topics, and read as much as you can of the write-in answers to things like ‘what makes upgrading hard for me’ and ‘what else would you like to tell the committee.’
For the public (posting soon on isocpp.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=G0mEKDrwjLMug3xJXGptkZSTh1gV3%2BSC2naNv0rsyC4%3D&reserved=0>): I will post a copy of the summary report on isocpp.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=G0mEKDrwjLMug3xJXGptkZSTh1gV3%2BSC2naNv0rsyC4%3D&reserved=0> as soon as I can get SurveyMonkey to not crash on its word cloud generator for the write-in questions. :)
The full data set can be made available on request to Foundation member organizations<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fabout&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=4u2y4SZRF9xCLuxq%2FjPYbVSBgXHAbR0FPhPwVTX8wxs%3D&reserved=0> for their internal use, if they want to run correlation analyses using a single respondent’s answers across questions (e.g., how did the people who said A on question B answer question C?). Although we deliberately asked no PII (personally identifiable information) questions such as email addresses, for now at least I’d rather not share the full data set outside the Foundation out of an abundance of caution. The above should give everyone here plenty of data to sift through!
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Herb
_______________________________________________
All mailing list
All_at_[hidden]<mailto:All_at_[hidden]>
Subscription: http://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/all<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fall&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=MjWB08usXAHKjtDBo0tySbKmZ7N9F65r1Xo4kLFIhMM%3D&reserved=0>
Link to this post: http://lists.isocpp.org/all/2018/03/0206.php<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fall%2F2018%2F03%2F0206.php&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=b30EyTPxjb5Zexxopnh8hgWUs5LE7P35ECBVl%2BI3Cb4%3D&reserved=0>
From: Herb Sutter
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 11:06 AM
To: Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash <brycelelbach_at_[hidden]>; tooling_at_[hidden]
Cc: Titus Winters <titus_at_[hidden]>
Subject: RE: [isocpp-all] Survey 2018-02 results posted to the JAX wiki
+tooling@ (our newest reflector, for SG15 – note all@ is for announcements only)
Hi Bryce,
> it seems like one of the more common set of asks is: standardizex package
> management and a standardized build system.
Yes, that’s definitely a need that the community feels and shows up in the verbatims.
> We don't have any word clouds/etc for the write ins yet, correct?
SurveyMonkey reports the word cloud generation is a known bug and they’re working on it, but no ETA. But that’s only holding back my public posting of the results… I hope to find a fix or workaround in the next few days and post the summary with word clouds on isocpp.org.
Herb
From: Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash [mailto:brycelelbach_at_[hidden]]
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 7:51 PM
To: Herb Sutter <hsutter_at_microsoft.com<mailto:hsutter_at_[hidden]>>
Cc: all_at_lists.isocpp.org<mailto:all_at_[hidden]>
Subject: Re: [isocpp-all] Survey 2018-02 results posted to the JAX wiki
At a glance, it seems like one of the more common set of asks is: standardizex package management and a standardized build system.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 7:43 PM Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash <brycelelbach_at_[hidden]<mailto:brycelelbach_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
Ah, nevermind, I misunderstood. We don't have any word clouds/etc for the write ins yet, correct?
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 7:39 PM Bryce Adelstein Lelbach aka wash <brycelelbach_at_[hidden]<mailto:brycelelbach_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
Herb,
The summary doesn't show anything for the written questions, at least for me.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 12:42 PM Herb Sutter via All <all_at_[hidden]<mailto:all_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
Dear WG21 members,
Last Monday, the Standard C++ Foundation ran its first C++ Developer Survey “Lite” 2018-02<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fblog%2F2018%2F02%2Fnew-cpp-foundation-developer-survey-lite-2018-02&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=fXdw8Wu%2Bvc7FoWo%2FvmJJsDo64FAlWIDT8Dbz8kjT42U%3D&reserved=0>. We let it run a full week, our community generously contributed 3,286 responses.
For the committee (posted on the wiki): On the Jacksonville wiki Documents page<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.edg.com%2Fbin%2Fview%2FWg21jacksonville2018%2FDocuments&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=VIpatupf%2FqeVXhKVcQ8Mv1lTUckLo%2Bk9KXqalckId4g%3D&reserved=0>, you will find two PDF files:
* A 24-pg summary<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.edg.com%2Fpub%2FWg21jacksonville2018%2FDocuments%2FCppDevSurvey-2018-02-summary.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=es9vunuUT35fEjojrjrXBMzkIV7UPRJYGCU3FE78TLE%3D&reserved=0> containing statistical answers to the non-write-in questions.
* A 334-pg set of full written answers<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.edg.com%2Fpub%2FWg21jacksonville2018%2FDocuments%2FCppDevSurvey-2018-02-writeins.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=RISg0Vo%2B9yoHgy1IQt76GDjd%2BjJhb6%2BzouLSnqT8RjU%3D&reserved=0> to the five write-in questions.
I encourage you to make use of this data – discuss (L)EWG-informative insights on the evolution reflectors, mine it to improve/support your proposals, keyword-search it to see what our community members are saying about specific topics, and read as much as you can of the write-in answers to things like ‘what makes upgrading hard for me’ and ‘what else would you like to tell the committee.’
For the public (posting soon on isocpp.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=G0mEKDrwjLMug3xJXGptkZSTh1gV3%2BSC2naNv0rsyC4%3D&reserved=0>): I will post a copy of the summary report on isocpp.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=G0mEKDrwjLMug3xJXGptkZSTh1gV3%2BSC2naNv0rsyC4%3D&reserved=0> as soon as I can get SurveyMonkey to not crash on its word cloud generator for the write-in questions. :)
The full data set can be made available on request to Foundation member organizations<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fabout&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=4u2y4SZRF9xCLuxq%2FjPYbVSBgXHAbR0FPhPwVTX8wxs%3D&reserved=0> for their internal use, if they want to run correlation analyses using a single respondent’s answers across questions (e.g., how did the people who said A on question B answer question C?). Although we deliberately asked no PII (personally identifiable information) questions such as email addresses, for now at least I’d rather not share the full data set outside the Foundation out of an abundance of caution. The above should give everyone here plenty of data to sift through!
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Herb
_______________________________________________
All mailing list
All_at_[hidden]<mailto:All_at_[hidden]>
Subscription: http://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/all<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fall&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=MjWB08usXAHKjtDBo0tySbKmZ7N9F65r1Xo4kLFIhMM%3D&reserved=0>
Link to this post: http://lists.isocpp.org/all/2018/03/0206.php<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fall%2F2018%2F03%2F0206.php&data=04%7C01%7Chsutter%40microsoft.com%7C764c1696d64640ae55e608d583156e8d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636559050512734982%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-2&sdata=b30EyTPxjb5Zexxopnh8hgWUs5LE7P35ECBVl%2BI3Cb4%3D&reserved=0>
Received on 2018-03-06 20:23:36