I had concerns about adoption of modules (and dialect splits) 5 years ago
and I didn't consider it premature then :)

https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/g/modules/c/sDIYoU8Uljw/m/BKKCSZFdBAAJ?pli=1

I guess either time will tell or fresh ideas will remove barriers to
adoption. I'll watch with interest.

Thanks,

Stephen.




On Mon 25 Apr 2022, 22:25 Gabriel Dos Reis, <gdr_at_[hidden]> wrote:

>
> - Is there any concern that this will harm adoption of modules, or
> lead to dialects of the language?
>
>
>
> As of today, I consider such a worry premature; but I will continue to
> evaluate data and uses, etc.
>
>
>
> -- Gaby
>
>
>
> *From:* Ext <ext-bounces_at_[hidden]> *On Behalf Of *Stephen Kelly
> via Ext
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2022 2:20 PM
> *To:* sg15_at_[hidden]
> *Cc:* Stephen Kelly <steveire_at_[hidden]>; Evolution Working Group mailing
> list <ext_at_[hidden]>
> *Subject:* Re: [isocpp-ext] [SG15] Fwd: Can we expect that all C++ source
> files can have the same suffix?
>
>
>
>
>
> Lots of libraries value such easy quick-starts. If they want to keep the
> easy quick-start, they will have to provide includable headers and they
> won't be able to depend on any library that doesn't provide includable
> headers.
>
>
> Is there any concern that this will harm adoption of modules, or lead to
> dialects of the language?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> On Mon 25 Apr 2022, 21:55 Gabriel Dos Reis via SG15, <
> sg15_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> [Iain]
>
> - With at least two of the current implementations, this is not a
> viable proposition - since the BMI is dependent on the compile options -
> therefore there is no single “BMI to install” - and the set of permutations
> would be too large to be practicable.
>
>
>
> I agreed that prebuilt versions that cover all imaginable combinations of
> compiler options is not practical. But, again when you look at what they
> are asking they seem to be pretty happy with some common or “golden path”
> to run small tests; and I’ve heard them say in the past “it does not need
> to be perfect”… The approach taken in MSVC (not perfect) is to default to
> some “commonly used options” and run experiments with those; that seems to
> work well for those scenarios. For large scale, serious usage, they can’t
> escape the “you’ve got to graduate to skyscrapers settings”.
>
>
>
> -- Gaby
>
>
>
> *From:* SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> *On Behalf Of *Iain Sandoe
> via SG15
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2022 1:06 PM
> *To:* sg15_at_[hidden]
> *Cc:* Iain Sandoe <iain_at_[hidden]>; Evolution Working Group mailing
> list <ext_at_[hidden]>
> *Subject:* [SG15] Fwd: [isocpp-ext] Can we expect that all C++ source
> files can have the same suffix?
>
>
>
> posted from the wrong address, sorry,
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
>
> *From: *Iain Sandoe <idsandoe_at_[hidden]>
>
> *Subject: Re: [SG15] [isocpp-ext] Can we expect that all C++ source files
> can have the same suffix?*
>
> *Date: *25 April 2022 at 21:02:03 BST
>
> *To: *sg15_at_[hidden]
>
> *Cc: *Evolution Working Group mailing list <ext_at_[hidden]>, Steve
> Downey <sdowney_at_[hidden]>, Peter Dimov <pdimov_at_[hidden]>, Tom Honermann
> <tom_at_[hidden]>, Nathan Sidwell <nathan_at_[hidden]>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 25 Apr 2022, at 19:43, Steve Downey via SG15 <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 1:55 PM Peter Dimov via Ext <ext_at_[hidden]>
> wrote:
> Tom Honermann wrote:
>
> On 4/25/22 1:12 PM, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>
> [Peter]
>
> You are correct that the requests don't stop here.
>
> Please, go talk to Tom 😊
> Let me know when you're on the same page and what the actual request
> is 😉
>
>
> I think Peter and I are pretty well aligned. At a minimum, we're aligned on
> support for the standard library.
>
> Supporting Boost as Peter suggested would require something like what the
> SG15 TR intends to specify or some other form of deeper integration between
> the compiler and the Boost installation; I'm content to categorize those
> integrations as falling on the sky scraper side. Like Peter, I would like
> for the
> compiler to just support those integrations, but I would also like for
> build
> systems to just never be required at all and I don't see that happening
> any time
> soon :)
>
>
> Boost here is just an example. The `import <boost/smart_ptr.hpp>` scenario
> concerns a header-only library that is, as today, installed somewhere in
> the
> default compiler include path. #include works today, we'd ideally want
> import
> to work tomorrow without additional friction, so that people can painlessly
> migrate to using modules.
>
> The Regex scenario describes a C++ compiled library that is installed in
> the
> default include path and the default library path (by e.g. the system
> package
> manager, although not necessarily.) The question here is would it be
> possible,
> in the brave new module world, for the system package manager to install
> some things somewhere such that `import <boost/regex.hpp>` or
> `import boost.regex` works as well as #include works today.
>
> (I'm assuming here that both libraries have been changed in whatever way
> is needed to support modules.)
>
>
> Possibly for the system compiler, so that the BMI for
> <boost/smart_ptr.hpp> could be produced upon installation of the boost
> library.
>
>
> With at least two of the current implementations, this is not a viable
> proposition - since the BMI is dependent on the compile options - therefore
> there is no single “BMI to install” - and the set of permutations would be
> too large to be practicable.
>
> Iain
>
> However, this will also make compiler upgrades and secondary compilers a
> nightmare to install as the entire world gets rebuilt to generate some set
> of ABI compatible importable objects.
>
>
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