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Subject: Re: Dec 11 SG14 monthly call
From: Michael Wong (fraggamuffin_at_[hidden])
Date: 2019-12-11 14:18:03


Hi all, my notes of the call, I will integrate with Steffan's notes. Thank
you Steffan for chairing.
Happy holidays everyone, thanks for calling in and sorry for the Great Fire
wall messing up my sound. I am getting these notes out by tethering to my
western cell phone.

On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 11:10 AM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
wrote:

> HI all, here is the updated agenda. Thanks Staffan for agreeing to chair
> in my possible absence.
>
> Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly
> Hi,
>
> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>
> Topic: SG14 monthly Dec 2019-Mar 2020
> Time: Dec 11, 2019 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> Every month on the Second Wed, until Mar 11, 2020, 4 occurrence(s)
> Dec 11, 2019 02:00 PM
> Jan 8, 2020 02:00 PM
> Feb 12, 2020 02:00 PM
> Mar 11, 2020 02:00 PM
> Please download and import the following iCalendar (.ics) files to
> your calendar system.
> Monthly:
> https://iso.zoom.us/meeting/uZ0ofuytpzovTphUEzR9_79rSWAWZDRUxQ/ics?icsToken=98tyKu2hqzIvH92UtVztAqkvA5X5buHulEVeopZ4hi28PHcKcDDBF9V4FoBKCOmB
>
> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://iso.zoom.us/j/495955915
>
> Or iPhone one-tap :
> US: +16699006833,,495955915# or +14086380968,,495955915#
> Or Telephone:
> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
> location):
> US: +1 669 900 6833 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or
> 877 853 5247 (Toll Free) or 877 369 0926 (Toll Free)
> Meeting ID: 495 955 915
> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abhaIjFKLZ
>
> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/495955915
>
>
>
> Agenda:
>
> 1. Opening and introductions
>
> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>
Michael Wong, Connon Horman, Dan Raviv, Guy Davidson, Inbal Levi, Billy
Baker, John MacFarlane, Matthew Butler, Max Gardner, Mark Hoemmen, Neil
Horlock, Paul Bendixen, Rene Rivera, Ronen Friedman, Steffan TJ, Paul
Preney, Eduardo Costa, CHarles Bay

> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>
Yes

> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>
> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>
> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>
> 2.1 General logistics
>
> recap C++ 20 meeting
>
Mailing deadline is Jan 13
report on Numerics - P1889, or P1890 safety
concerns from BSI on missing rationales from the indvidual papers from the
omnibus papers
Discussion on need for rationale in TS
AI: MW to ask if rationale should be kept in general

Linear Albegbra progressing
take traits in syntax paper and theer would be an engine call blas
assume yo ualso add mathematical optimzations
yes blas wrapper has existng optimized library that is in C or tuned by
chip vendors
mdspan is the iterator idiom for matrices, it i s multidimentional iterator

Neil asked QUB has a question about associative Legendre polynomials and as
it is different then unassociative versions, would we need to feed that
proposal through SG14, 6?
Suggest SG6 and SG19 as this is related to differential calculus
Suggest posting question to SG19

>
> 2.2 Paper reviews
> P1436R2 <https://wg21.link/p1436r2> Executor properties for
> affinity-based execution Gordon Brown Gordon Brown, Ruyman Reyes, Michael
> Wong, H. Carter Edwards, Thomas Rodgers, Mark Hoemmen P1436R2
> <http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21belfast/P1436R2> 60 minutes
> P1795r1 <https://wg21.link/p1795r1> System topology discovery for
> heterogeneous & distributed computing Gordon Brown Gordon Brown, Ruyman
> Reyes, Michael Wong, Mark Hoemmen, Jeff Hammond, Tom Scogland, Domagoj
> Šarić P1795R1 <http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21belfast/P1795R1> 60
> minutes
>
> 2.2.5 any other proposal for reviews?
>
>
> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>
>
> I would like to ask each Domain chair to consider the following so we can
> put out a call for proposal:
>
> 1. What are the features in recent C++ since SG14 formation (C++17,20)
> that are useful in your domain?
>
> 2. What features you would like to pursue in SG14 for your domain? For
> example, for embeded : inplace containers, intrusive pointers, fixed sized
> containers
>
>
> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>
> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
> Holmes, John McFarlane
>

Freestanding : a implementation is available to try out by Paul Bendixen in
a GCC branch
https://gitlab.com/avr-libstdcxx
The docker image showshow to build it, the gcc project is a fork of the
official gcc with changes in the p0829-XXX branches
On freestanding, a comment. I don't know if this is already a proposal or
being talked about, but is there a reason why exceptions are required for
freestanding? because freestanding is already in the standard, and it has
exceptions,
P0829 has an implementation, this is the library, which adds things
The other proposal is for language and proposes remove things but is still
controversial

Contracts for safety

> - Financial/Trading chairs: Stephan TJ, Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> Mateusz Pusz, Clay Trychta,
>
 likely unlikely by Clay is in C++20
affinity and topology discovery
Neil: pipelines
intrusive
inplace
and fixed sized containers

   - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson
>
memory management for Games for C++17 from Brent Freedman
P00040
flat map by ach Laine
ptf colony by Matthew Bentley
ring buffer by Guy P0059, fell off at Rapperswil, concerned about single
producer/single consumer, policy decisions, and whetehr it should be
concurrent, Dan Raviv, and Matthew BUtler coudl help
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2017/p0059r4.pdf
Mark asked would std::destroy_at etc. change the whole pop traits thing?

Rene: more control over the compilation and operation of C++. I have the
member layout control (competing) paper, for example.
threading/executors related controls is high. Anything to improve debugging
capabilities and experience. Better performing containers.

> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>

Propose to start a reflector discussion
Does executors serve our domains
exceptions is still a hot issue

2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>
> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>
> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>
> - *2019-11-04 to 09: Belfast, Northern Ireland;* Archer Yates
> -
> - 2020-02-10 to 15: Prague, Czech Republic
>
> - 2020-06-01 to 06: Bulgaria
> - 2020-11: (New York, tentative)
> - 2021-02-22 to 27: Kona, HI, USA
>
> 3. Any other business
> Reflector
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards committee
> paper mailings:
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>
> Code and proposal Staging area
> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> 4. Review
>
> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> working draft]
>
> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>
> 5. Closing process
>
> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>
> 5.2 Future meeting
> Dec 11, 2019 02:00 PM
> Jan 8, 2020 02:00 PM: Jan 13 is mailing deadline
> Feb 12, 2020 02:00 PM
> Mar 11, 2020 02:00 PM
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 9:26 AM Tjernstrom, Staffan via SG14 <
> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
>> It varies by how much we have to cover, but we generally allow for two
>> hours.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* SG14 [mailto:sg14-bounces_at_[hidden]] *On Behalf Of *connor
>> horman via SG14
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 11 December, 2019 08:45
>> *To:* sg14_at_[hidden]
>> *Cc:* connor horman <chorman64_at_[hidden]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [SG14] Dec 11 SG14 monthly call
>>
>>
>>
>> Just a question, but how long will the meeting likely take?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 08:42 Michael Wong via SG14 <
>> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>
>> All are welcome. Because I am behind the great fire wall this week, my
>> connection could be weak or drop. If so then Stefan TJ will chair. Thanks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Dec 11, 2019, at 8:40 PM, Dan Raviv <dan.raviv_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm also planning to join the meeting for the first time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 9:48 AM Michael Wong via SG14 <
>> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Conor, welcome to the list. this is an outreach group and anyone can
>> join. THanks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Dec 11, 2019, at 10:35 AM, connor horman via SG14 <
>> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Any limitations on who can join? I'm new to the list, and would like
>> > to learn how things are done, and listening to a meeting like this
>> > seems like it would help with that.
>> >
>> > On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 at 21:13, Michael Wong via SG14
>> > <sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>> >>
>> >> Topic: SG14 monthly Dec 2019-Mar 2020
>> >> Time: Dec 11, 2019 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
>> >> Every month on the Second Wed, until Mar 11, 2020, 4 occurrence(s)
>> >> Dec 11, 2019 02:00 PM
>> >> Jan 8, 2020 02:00 PM
>> >> Feb 12, 2020 02:00 PM
>> >> Mar 11, 2020 02:00 PM
>> >> Please download and import the following iCalendar (.ics) files to
>> your calendar system.
>> >> Monthly:
>> https://iso.zoom.us/meeting/uZ0ofuytpzovTphUEzR9_79rSWAWZDRUxQ/ics?icsToken=98tyKu2hqzIvH92UtVztAqkvA5X5buHulEVeopZ4hi28PHcKcDDBF9V4FoBKCOmB
>> >>
>> >> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
>> https://iso.zoom.us/j/495955915
>> >>
>> >> Or iPhone one-tap :
>> >> US: +16699006833,,495955915# or +14086380968,,495955915#
>> >> Or Telephone:
>> >> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
>> location):
>> >> US: +1 669 900 6833 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or
>> 877 853 5247 (Toll Free) or 877 369 0926 (Toll Free)
>> >> Meeting ID: 495 955 915
>> >> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abhaIjFKLZ
>> >>
>> >> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
>> >> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/495955915
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Agenda:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Opening and introductions
>> >>
>> >> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>> >>
>> >> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>> >>
>> >> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
>> >> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>> >>
>> >> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>> >>
>> >> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>> >>
>> >> 2.1 General logistics
>> >>
>> >> recap C++ 20 meeting
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2.2 Paper reviews
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2.2.5 any other proposal for reviews?
>> >>
>> >> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>> >>
>> >> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>> >>
>> >> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
>> >> Holmes, John McFarlane
>> >> <
>> http://wiki.edg.com/bin/edit/Wg21belfast/McFarlane?topicparent=Wg21belfast.SG14CPPCON2019-09-17;nowysiwyg=1
>> >
>> >> - Financial/Trading chairs: Stephan TJ, Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
>> >> Mateusz Pusz, Clay Trychta,
>> >> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson
>> >> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>> >>
>> >> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>> >>
>> >> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>> >>
>> >> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
>> >> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>> >>
>> >> - *2019-11-04 to 09: Belfast, Northern Ireland;* Archer Yates
>> >> -
>> >> - 2020-02-10 to 15: Prague, Czech Republic
>> >>
>> >> - 2020-06-01 to 06: Bulgaria
>> >> - 2020-11: (New York, tentative)
>> >> - 2021-02-22 to 27: Kona, HI, USA
>> >>
>> >> 3. Any other business
>> >> Reflector
>> >> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>> >> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards
>> committee
>> >> paper mailings:
>> >> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
>> >> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>> >>
>> >> Code and proposal Staging area
>> >> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
>> >> 4. Review
>> >>
>> >> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
>> >> working draft]
>> >>
>> >> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>> >>
>> >> 5. Closing process
>> >>
>> >> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>> >>
>> >> 5.2 Future meeting
>> >>
>> >> Dec 11, 2019 02:00 PM
>> >> Jan 8, 2020 02:00 PM: Jan 13 is mailing deadline
>> >> Feb 12, 2020 02:00 PM
>> >> Mar 11, 2020 02:00 PM
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> SG14 mailing list
>> >> SG14_at_[hidden]
>> >> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > SG14 mailing list
>> > SG14_at_[hidden]
>> > https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>> _______________________________________________
>> SG14 mailing list
>> SG14_at_[hidden]
>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SG14 mailing list
>> SG14_at_[hidden]
>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>
>>
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