On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 9:51 AM Jens Maurer <jens.maurer_at_[hidden]> wrote:

>
>
> On 28/10/2023 09.28, Corentin via Ext wrote:
> > Thanks JF!
> > Most of the issues in SG12 are preprocessing-related. Didn't SG22 want
> first dibs on those?
> > (they are tracked in
> https://github.com/sg22-c-cpp-standard-compatibility/sg-compatibility/labels/CWG
> <
> https://github.com/sg22-c-cpp-standard-compatibility/sg-compatibility/labels/CWG>
> and there is a general agreement that we don't want to diverge the
> preprocessor from C if we can help it)
>
> The details of the coordination between CWG and SG22/WG14 are
> still being worked out.
>
> However, one could argue that the UB-style preprocessor issues on
> SG12's plate might use the words "undefined behavior" intentionally from
> a WG14 viewpoint (as in "the standard doesn't say what should happen
> here"). This might be a case where C++ wants to deviate from / strengthen
> the C rules, also because C++ has far fewer implementations to deal with.
>
> In contrast, other CWG issues actually labeled SG22 concern perceived
> wording
> bugs in the processor. Those may have a higher chance of finding agreement
> for wording fixes between C and C++.
>
> In any case, the CWG issues presented to SG12 certainly need volunteers
> to draft wording fixes to remove the "undefined behavior" (at the very
> least to remove this particular phrase, which is certainly confusing).
>

Alisdair has a paper aiming to change the terminology
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2023/p2843r0.pdf
(it does not resolve any issue afaict, just remove the term "undefined
behavior")

I'm not sure how we could do that but I'm hoping we could reach an
agreement (maybe a poll in SG12?) that phases 1-6 of translations never
cause undefined behavior (as understood by
C++) and therefore not under the purview of SG12. (in the general case,
preprocessing and lexing related papers are very likely to require
consulting either SG22, SG16, or both)


>
> Jens
>
>
>
> > On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 9:19 AM JF Bastien via Ext <ext_at_[hidden]
> <mailto:ext_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello EWG and UB,
> >
> > The tentative schedules for the Kona meeting are available:
> >
> > https://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21kona2023/EvolutionWorkingGroup <
> https://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21kona2023/EvolutionWorkingGroup>
> >
> > https://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21kona2023/SG12 <
> https://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21kona2023/SG12>
> >
> > Please review the schedule and contact me privately if you have any
> feedback. I've tried to accommodate timezones for virtual presenters as
> well as conflicts with other groups, please let me know if I've failed.
> Please consider the lack of time travel and time dilation devices is
> standard C++ when you make requests that may be difficult to meet.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > JF
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 7:10 AM JF Bastien <cxx_at_[hidden]
> <mailto:cxx_at_[hidden]>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello EWG and SG12 (UB),
> >
> > I've extracted the paper information for Kona for the following
> groups:
> >
> > * EWG <
> https://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21kona2023/EvolutionWorkingGroup>
> > * EWGI <https://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21kona2023/SG17>
> > * SG12 (UB) <https://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21kona2023/SG12>
> >
> > I've used the ISO registration information and the hotel
> reservations to identify who will attend (either in-person or remote).
> >
> > *_If you have not registered, your paper will not be scheduled_*
> >
> > Therefore, you should register your attendance (virtual or
> in-person) with ISO <https://sd.iso.org/meetings/120833> ASAP.
> >
> > I will be scheduling EWG/EWGI/SG12 papers shortly based on this
> information.
> >
> > If any information is inaccurate, please reach out privately (do
> not reply-all).
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > JF
> >
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