On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 at 09:28, Magnus Fromreide via Std-Proposals <
std-proposals_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I am feeling frustrated and feel a need to rant a little bit.
>
> <- rant -
>
> I have a feeling that many of the flagship features added in more recent
> revisions of the C++ standard are half baked in that they are missing
> parts that are necessary to make them useful.
>
> As examples of this I would like to put up
>
> * std::ranges
> Here we have an ongoing saga of adding stuff from ranges-v3 that
> is missing and even a roadmap for the things that someone think
> are most important to add.
> Here it feels like the most reasonable course of action is to use
> ranges-v3 and ignore std::ranges.
>

They should be compatible, no? You can use both, for when you need
something missing from the standard.


>
> * std::format
> Here I tried to use it. I wanted to print a vector of unsigned
> values as 1.2.3 and failed.
> I then try to search the intenet for how to do it and finds
> fmt::join - because obviously this is a reasonable thing to
> do - but then I find that fmt::join expressly wasn't included
> when range_formaater was added for some reason.
> I then succumb to the other advise the internet gives:
> Ignore std::format and just use fmt.
>

Or use the couple of 30 or so lines of code to do it which are shown in
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p2286r8.html#what-additional-functionality

I disagree with your use of "half-baked". What we have in the standard are
the parts of the features that were considered fully-baked, and ready to
standardize. The ranges-v3 and {fmt} libraries have lots of experimental
and unproven pieces, and not all of them are suitable for standardizations
yet.

If you want to delay standardizing anything until it's all 100% complete
and perfect, you'll get *nothing* in the standard. The ranges work we got
in C++20 was already a big undertaking that took enormous effort from
several proposal authors, and significant review time from many more
people. If you want all of ranges-v3, we'd still be waiting for that to
happen now.

Complaining that other people doing lots of work haven't done enough work
for you seems rather entitled.