Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 12:21:07 -0400
On 9/27/22 11:55, Sebastian Wittmeier via Std-Proposals wrote:
> AW: [std-proposals] Rust vs C/C++ vs C++ Superset
>
> Hello Phil,
>
> can you share the .pdf documentation of C++ superset on this list
> (without having to download and install the complete framework)?
>
> Nice of you, if you want to contribute something useful and workable.
>
Thanks for your constructive comments. Here is the documentation; it
works in multithreaded mode as well:
https://fornux.com/files/pdf/Superset_Manual.pdf
> (In the following I share my personal impression, how it will go. But
> I do not make the rules.)
>
> If you want to propose an extension to the Core Language, the patent
> landscape has to be in a way that the improved language can be still
> compiled or processed by open source _and_ commercial compilers like
> Microsoft Visual C++ and run by their runtime libraries. Without those
> commercial companies or their customers having to get a license to the
> standardized core language.
>
> You have to assume that during the standardization process your
> proposals will be changed and parts removed, others added and others
> would work or be written differently.
>
> You wrote: "waiving the patented Fornux C++ Superset to integrate it
> into free open source projects" <- what about commercial projects?
> There won`t be a C++ language for commercial projects and one for open
> source projects, I am sure about that.
>
What I would like to integrate into the C++ standards first and foremost
is a framework to allow implicit addition of class members, parameters,
and scope instances, just like what the C++ Superset source-to-source
compiler is doing right now.
Once the framework is in place then we can integrate the root_ptr memory
manager, or other tools such as a compile-time backtrace, standard
profilers, ... I am also looking to make root_ptr free for open source
projects but we'll see for commercial projects as it might be similar to
the Docker containers approach but it's not confirmed yet.
> If you do not want to propose your specific language extension, but
> rather interfaces to your tool and to similiar tools with more
> annotation and customization/integration points than #pragmas and
> annotations, than the proposal has to be general enough for a whole
> class of similar tools, best the authors of those tools are
> contributing to the same proposal, the tools have widespread use, and
> it is possible for open source _and_ commercial companies like
> Microsoft to implement those (classes of) extensions without having to
> pay royalties or be otherwise bound by licensing or patent terms.
>
> You wrote on this list on 3rd Aug. 2021:
>
> https://lists.isocpp.org/std-proposals/2021/08/2979.php (SCC / ISO IEC
> - C++ Superset from)
>
> Was this the same, another or a related proposal?
>
That was a different idea.
> Best,
>
> Sebastian
>
> PS
>
> That some companies adopt Rust as a second langauge is not a good
> motivation. It would be better to concentrate on the technical details
> and merits, how which category of error is prevented, and why this
> superset is good as a core language change instead of as tool or as
> part of a C++ runtime or a library. Also is it suitable for every C++
> code to be enhanced in this way. Can old code bases be converted
> automatically? When yes, why would one need a change of the language
> specification at all, if not, what about compatibility, mixed code
> bases, etc. If you change only the semantics of the existing language
> and not of the syntax, would it break existing code?
>
Yeah the advantage of C++ Superset is it can be used to safely recompile
legacy code and to make sure the executable is free from all memory
related issues. I think Google Chrome is a good candidate as well.
It cannot break existing code, it just makes it stricter as you possibly
might have more compilation issues but less runtime issues.
Note that I am not doing marketing for C++ Superset right now as the
demo license is timed out right now because I am focusing on
astrophysics / antigravity projects at this point in time.
Sincerely,
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> *Von:* Phil Bouchard via Std-Proposals
> <std-proposals_at_[hidden]>
> *Gesendet:* Di 27.09.2022 16:49
> *Betreff:* [std-proposals] Rust vs C/C++ vs C++ Superset
> *An:* std-proposals_at_[hidden];
> *CC:* Phil Bouchard <boost_at_[hidden]>;
>
> Greetings,
>
> Apparently Rust is gaining traction very quickly, even Linus
> Torvalds will use it for his Linux kernel:
>
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/programming-languages-its-time-to-stop-using-c-and-c-for-new-projects-says-microsoft-azure-cto/
>
> Apparently as well Rust will not fix everything:
>
> "Bob Rudis, a cybersecurity researcher for GreyNoise Intelligence,
> who was formerly with Rapid7, noted developers can carry across
> the same bad security habits to Rust."
>
> I'm looking into waiving the patented Fornux C++ Superset to
> integrate it into free open source projects as well so that should
> fix a huge part of the problem:
>
> https://fornux.com/superset/
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> --
> Logo <https://www.fornux.com/>
> *Phil Bouchard* facebook icon
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-bouchard-5723a910/>
> CTO
> T: (819) 328-4743
> E: phil_at_[hidden]| www.fornux.com <http://www.fornux.com>
> 1188 rue Saint-Louis| Gatineau (Qc), J8T 2L8 Canada
>
> Banner <https://goglobalawards.org/> Le message ci-dessus, ainsi
> que les documents l'accompagnant, sont destinés uniquement aux
> personnes identifiées et peuvent contenir des informations
> privilégiées, confidentielles ou ne pouvant être divulguées. Si
> vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez le détruire.
> This communication (and/or the attachments) is intended for named
> recipients only and may contain privileged or confidential
> information which is not to be disclosed. If you received this
> communication by mistake please destroy all copies.
>
> --
> Std-Proposals mailing list
> Std-Proposals_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/std-proposals
>
>
>
> AW: [std-proposals] Rust vs C/C++ vs C++ Superset
>
> Hello Phil,
>
> can you share the .pdf documentation of C++ superset on this list
> (without having to download and install the complete framework)?
>
> Nice of you, if you want to contribute something useful and workable.
>
Thanks for your constructive comments. Here is the documentation; it
works in multithreaded mode as well:
https://fornux.com/files/pdf/Superset_Manual.pdf
> (In the following I share my personal impression, how it will go. But
> I do not make the rules.)
>
> If you want to propose an extension to the Core Language, the patent
> landscape has to be in a way that the improved language can be still
> compiled or processed by open source _and_ commercial compilers like
> Microsoft Visual C++ and run by their runtime libraries. Without those
> commercial companies or their customers having to get a license to the
> standardized core language.
>
> You have to assume that during the standardization process your
> proposals will be changed and parts removed, others added and others
> would work or be written differently.
>
> You wrote: "waiving the patented Fornux C++ Superset to integrate it
> into free open source projects" <- what about commercial projects?
> There won`t be a C++ language for commercial projects and one for open
> source projects, I am sure about that.
>
What I would like to integrate into the C++ standards first and foremost
is a framework to allow implicit addition of class members, parameters,
and scope instances, just like what the C++ Superset source-to-source
compiler is doing right now.
Once the framework is in place then we can integrate the root_ptr memory
manager, or other tools such as a compile-time backtrace, standard
profilers, ... I am also looking to make root_ptr free for open source
projects but we'll see for commercial projects as it might be similar to
the Docker containers approach but it's not confirmed yet.
> If you do not want to propose your specific language extension, but
> rather interfaces to your tool and to similiar tools with more
> annotation and customization/integration points than #pragmas and
> annotations, than the proposal has to be general enough for a whole
> class of similar tools, best the authors of those tools are
> contributing to the same proposal, the tools have widespread use, and
> it is possible for open source _and_ commercial companies like
> Microsoft to implement those (classes of) extensions without having to
> pay royalties or be otherwise bound by licensing or patent terms.
>
> You wrote on this list on 3rd Aug. 2021:
>
> https://lists.isocpp.org/std-proposals/2021/08/2979.php (SCC / ISO IEC
> - C++ Superset from)
>
> Was this the same, another or a related proposal?
>
That was a different idea.
> Best,
>
> Sebastian
>
> PS
>
> That some companies adopt Rust as a second langauge is not a good
> motivation. It would be better to concentrate on the technical details
> and merits, how which category of error is prevented, and why this
> superset is good as a core language change instead of as tool or as
> part of a C++ runtime or a library. Also is it suitable for every C++
> code to be enhanced in this way. Can old code bases be converted
> automatically? When yes, why would one need a change of the language
> specification at all, if not, what about compatibility, mixed code
> bases, etc. If you change only the semantics of the existing language
> and not of the syntax, would it break existing code?
>
Yeah the advantage of C++ Superset is it can be used to safely recompile
legacy code and to make sure the executable is free from all memory
related issues. I think Google Chrome is a good candidate as well.
It cannot break existing code, it just makes it stricter as you possibly
might have more compilation issues but less runtime issues.
Note that I am not doing marketing for C++ Superset right now as the
demo license is timed out right now because I am focusing on
astrophysics / antigravity projects at this point in time.
Sincerely,
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> *Von:* Phil Bouchard via Std-Proposals
> <std-proposals_at_[hidden]>
> *Gesendet:* Di 27.09.2022 16:49
> *Betreff:* [std-proposals] Rust vs C/C++ vs C++ Superset
> *An:* std-proposals_at_[hidden];
> *CC:* Phil Bouchard <boost_at_[hidden]>;
>
> Greetings,
>
> Apparently Rust is gaining traction very quickly, even Linus
> Torvalds will use it for his Linux kernel:
>
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/programming-languages-its-time-to-stop-using-c-and-c-for-new-projects-says-microsoft-azure-cto/
>
> Apparently as well Rust will not fix everything:
>
> "Bob Rudis, a cybersecurity researcher for GreyNoise Intelligence,
> who was formerly with Rapid7, noted developers can carry across
> the same bad security habits to Rust."
>
> I'm looking into waiving the patented Fornux C++ Superset to
> integrate it into free open source projects as well so that should
> fix a huge part of the problem:
>
> https://fornux.com/superset/
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> --
> Logo <https://www.fornux.com/>
> *Phil Bouchard* facebook icon
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-bouchard-5723a910/>
> CTO
> T: (819) 328-4743
> E: phil_at_[hidden]| www.fornux.com <http://www.fornux.com>
> 1188 rue Saint-Louis| Gatineau (Qc), J8T 2L8 Canada
>
> Banner <https://goglobalawards.org/> Le message ci-dessus, ainsi
> que les documents l'accompagnant, sont destinés uniquement aux
> personnes identifiées et peuvent contenir des informations
> privilégiées, confidentielles ou ne pouvant être divulguées. Si
> vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez le détruire.
> This communication (and/or the attachments) is intended for named
> recipients only and may contain privileged or confidential
> information which is not to be disclosed. If you received this
> communication by mistake please destroy all copies.
>
> --
> Std-Proposals mailing list
> Std-Proposals_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/std-proposals
>
>
>
-- Email Signature Logo <https://www.fornux.com/> *Phil Bouchard* facebook icon <https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-bouchard-5723a910/> CTO T: (819) 328-4743 E: phil_at_[hidden]| www.fornux.com <http://www.fornux.com> 1188 rue Saint-Louis| Gatineau (Qc), J8T 2L8 Canada Banner <https://goglobalawards.org/> Le message ci-dessus, ainsi que les documents l'accompagnant, sont destinés uniquement aux personnes identifiées et peuvent contenir des informations privilégiées, confidentielles ou ne pouvant être divulguées. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, veuillez le détruire. This communication (and/or the attachments) is intended for named recipients only and may contain privileged or confidential information which is not to be disclosed. If you received this communication by mistake please destroy all copies.
Received on 2022-09-27 16:21:09