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Subject: Re: [std-proposals] 回复: Delay the judgement for coroutine function after the instantiation of template entity.
From: Gašper Ažman (gasper.azman_at_[hidden])
Date: 2021-01-21 11:51:57


I find myself agreeing with both camps here - but one of the camps is
talking about design, and the other about language semantics, and they
don't actually conflict.

*I personally find it extremely surprising that code guarded by if
constexpr is not a parseable comment.*

I would underline that 3 times if I could (4's too much, 5's right out).

Regardless of the inadvisability of the use of these semantics, I would
consider fixing this a DR. It's breaking my intuition about what if
constexpr does, which *aught to be* "this is a comment that parses for the
purposes of figuring out where it ends".

We shouldn't limit people's use-cases just because we can't think of them,
or how inadvisable they might seem. Instead, keeping the language as
regular as possible keeps us all sane.

G

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:24 PM Jason McKesson via Std-Proposals <
std-proposals_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 9:45 PM chuanqi.xcq via Std-Proposals
> <std-proposals_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> > >> I'm curious to see a complex example too. Especially since the main
> > point of a coroutine is its ability to `co_await` on other processes,
> > and that's not something that's very easy to `if constexpr` your way
> > around. Especially since the variables created in an `if constexpr`
> > block are local to that block, so you can't exactly do this:
> > >
> > >> ```
> > >>if constexpr(UseCoro)
> > >>{
> > >> auto value = co_await(coro_expr);
> > >>}
> > >>else
> > >>{
> > >> auto value = regular_expr
> > >>}
> > >>
> > >>//Use `value`
> > >>```
> >
> > Yes, my personal solution based on constexpr-if support for coroutine is:
> > ```
> > #define MAYCOAWAITEXPR(UseCoro, GetMethod, ARGS...) \
> > ({
> \
> > decltype(GetMethod<false>(ARGS...)) value; \
> > if constexpr (UseCoro)
> \
> > value = co_await GetMethod<UseCoro>(ARGS...); \
> > else
> \
> > value = GetMethod<UseCoro>(ARGS...); \
> > value;
> \
> > })
> > auto value = MAYCOAWAITEXPR(UseCoro, GetMethod);
> > ```
> > The macro MAYCOAWAITEXPR uses GNU statement expression extension.
> >
> > > I do agree that it would be useful if Chuanqi provided a more
> fleshed-out and realistic example.
> > > I'm curious to see a complex example too.
> >
> > Let me try to give a precise and short example. In our situation, the
> original codes consists of normal function and chains of calls. The length
> of the longest chain of calls could be nearly over 40.
> >
> > After stackless coroutine is knwon to be in C++20 in 2019, we try to use
> coroutine to refactor our codes extensively, which means a lot of effort.
>
> Here's what I don't really understand: why? What is this code doing
> that it makes sense to convert the *entire* callstack into a series of
> coroutines? Making an entire sequence of calls coroutines seems like
> overkill, unless all of these functions are big and are all being
> executed asynchronously *separately* from the other functions in the
> stack.
>
> Let's say that we have a function X which is, by its nature, an
> asynchronous coroutine function. This means that X has to schedule its
> resumption based on some external asynchronous process, like doing
> file/networking IO, etc. Doing this is *why* you made the function a
> coroutine; it is the nature of X that it waits on something
> asynchronously. And let's say that we have some function Y which gets
> called by X.
>
> Just because X is a coroutine doesn't mean that Y has to be one too. Y
> only needs to be a coroutine if it needs to pause its execution and
> resume it based on some external asynchronous process. And this is
> (usually) something that is *intrinsic* to the very nature of a
> function. That is, whether Y is a coroutine or not is a property of
> doing whatever it is that Y is *doing*, not how Y gets *called*.
>
> The only case I could imagine where Y may or may not be a coroutine is
> if part of Y's execution is determined by its caller, through being
> given a callable object of some kind. If the callable invokes an
> asynchronous process, then Y might want to schedule its resumption
> with that process and thus Y would want to be a coroutine. But if the
> callable doesn't invoke an asynchronous process, then Y doesn't need
> to schedule its resumption.
>
> Note that this is a pretty fundamental problem with `co_await`-style
> coroutines *in general*. You can't use `std::for_each` if the functor
> is a coroutine, as this would require `for_each` to manually
> `co_await` on each invocation of the functor. And that's not how
> `for_each` is written. So algorithms either require a coroutine or
> require the functor to *not* be a coroutine; there's no way to have
> the algorithm rewrite itself based on that.
>
> It's a case where stackful coroutines are just better than stackless:
> functions can arbitrarily *force* code higher up in the callstack to
> suspend and resume without that code knowing its happening.
>
> In any case, none of the cases you've shown here are like that. None
> of these functions are being given a potentially asynchronous process
> that it may or may not await on. In your cases, the question is
> whether to treat *all functions* that your function calls as
> asynchronous processes to await on.
>
> I believe that is what people are talking about when they say that you
> shouldn't want this. It really feels like you're trying to force
> stackless coroutines to work like stackful coroutines.
>
> > The method of our refactoring is change a normal function to coroutine
> function, whcih would change the return type from int to task<int> and
> change a normal function call to a co_await expression.
> >
> > Note that we don't change every function to coroutine function and
> changed every function call to co_await expression. Maybe this is a silly
> note.
> >
> > And after we refactor these codes, we find that coroutine give a great
> perform improvement when the concurrency is very very high. But when the
> concurrency is not so high, the performance is poor.
> >
> > > I'm also curious to know what situations they find coroutines
> > performing poorly for.
> >
> > From our analysis, the reason why coroutines performing poorly is the
> big try-catch statement inserted by the coroutine standard. It is imported
> by the design and compiler couldn't do much about that. And we also know it
> is much much harder to change the exception specification.
>
> I was looking for something more specific in terms of the actual code,
> not the details of how the compiler generated non-optimal assembly.
> And specifically, I'm trying to understand the *meaning* of the code,
> not just a bunch of no-name functions that call each other. I want to
> know the details of what you're trying to do that led to the cases of
> both good performance and bad performance.
>
> > > I'm curious to see a complex example too.
> >
> > I think it is hard to give an concise example in codes, let me try it.
> >
> > Before refactoring, the codes seems like:
> > ```
> > int funcA(....) {
> > // some logics
> > int v = funcB(...);
> > // other logics...
> > }
> > int funcB(....) {
> > // some logics
> > int v = funcC(...);
> > // other logics...
> > }
> > int funcC(...) {
> > // an actual asynchoronous situation
> > ...
> > }
> > ```
> >
> > After refacoring:
> > ```
> > task<int> funcA(....) {
> > // some logics
> > int v = co_awiat funcB(...);
> > // other logics...
> > }
> > task<int> funcB(....) {
> > // some logics
> > int v = co_await funcC(...);
> > // other logics...
> > }
> > task<int> funcC(...) {
> > // an actual asynchoronous situation
> > co_await something;
> > ...
> > co_return something;
> > }
> > ```
> > And we want to:
> >
> > ```
> > template<bool UseCoro>
> > CondCoro<UseCoro, int> funcA(....) {
> > // some logics
> > int v =MAYCOAWAITEXPR(UseCoro, funcB, ...);
> > // other logics...
> > }
> > task<int> funcB(....) {
> > // some logics
> > int v = MAYCOAWAITEXPR(UseCoro, funcC, ...);
> > // other logics...
> > }
> > task<int> funcC(...) {
> > // an actual asynchoronous situation
> > co_await something;
> > ...
> > co_return something;
> > }
> > ```
> >
> > > I brought this up on the cpplang Slack (in the #coroutines channel).
> Personally I tend to agree with your take, but the consensus in Slack
> seemed to be "You shouldn't want that."
> >
> > Here my point is that it is natural to make constexpr-if work for
> coroutines. And this suggestion looks really harmless. So I am curious
> about the reason why people don't want to make constexpr-if work for
> coroutine.
>
> Because a function should either be a coroutine or not be a coroutine.
>
> Consider something like `std::copy`. If the range type it is given is
> contiguous, and the value type is trivially copyable, then it can do a
> memcpy on its contents rather than step-by-step assignment. That's
> good, and `if constexpr` makes that pretty easy to write. But that
> doesn't change the *nature* of the function, nor does it change how
> you fundamentally interact with it.
>
> Being a coroutine *does* change these things. External code has to be
> written differently for the coroutine version than the non-coroutine
> version. That's what your macro is for after all. Just because you
> found a way to minimize those differences doesn't mean they aren't
> *there*.
>
> You are writing two separate functions that you want to have the same
> name. This feels like an improper use of overloading/template
> instantiation. It feels a lot like `vector<bool>`, which has special
> interfaces and different iterator categories separate from
> `vector<AnythingElse>`. You can't just swap a `vector<bool>` in
> without thinking about it. So it shouldn't be spelled "vector<bool>".
>
> Just as it should be for these functions.
> --
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> Std-Proposals_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/std-proposals
>



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