Hello,

Thank you to all who attended the meeting today.

These are some of the feedback/action items I got today and the slides are
attached:

   - The proposal presented here is similar in the level of abstraction to
   the simd proposal in
   https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/experimental/simd/simd and
   http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/p0214r9.pdf in
   the sense that it proposes to partition the application data into small
   chunks that fit into physical registers and focuses on performance and low
   level programming.
   - The example code shows only efficient mapping on AMX in the CPU
   context. How would this efficiently map to Nvidia GPUs tensorcores?
   - A query API is needed to query the different efficiently supported
   sizes and types on the hardware. These sizes and types are
   implementation-defined. If an implementation finds a value in emulating
   sizes or types that are not natively supported by the matrix hardware, the
   implementation is free to emulate them but these will be communicated to
   the user via this query API.
   - Do we really need the dynamic variant of the sizes? AMX supports it
   but is this a sufficient reason to add it to the spec? Having only constant
   sizes (included with the type) would simplify the API and the query
   interface.
   - Besides matrix_load, matrix_store and matrix_mad, what are the
   operations (mainly element wise operations and others) to be added for
   completeness? There are three options that we can consider one or a
   combination of them:
      - have indexing and looping over the scalars as the general
      approach to implement any kind of operation
      - Since the matrix hardware, at least the main ones here, does not
      support these operations natively, provide an operation to convert
      (flatten) the matrix into a vector to be able to apply all these vector
      operations without introducing extra functions.
      - Select a set of operations that are supported in modern hardware
      (like a convolution function) and add these specific ones as additional
      functions that operate on the matrix type.
   - This proposal consists of a low level matrix and should be separated
   from the existing matrix-related proposals like mdspan, mdarray, BLAS and
   matrix engines. The end users in the latter proposals don't need to think
   about partitioning the data or what the hardware efficiently supports.
   - The vocabulary used in the motivation and use cases of this proposal
   should move away from the generic ML terminology into more specific terms
   like linear algebra functions.

Thanks,
Dounia


On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 2:20 PM Michael Wong via SG19 <sg19_at_[hidden]>
wrote:

> Thank you Jens for hosting.
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:19 PM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry guys my internet died.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 2:18 PM Jens Maurer via SG19 <
>> sg19_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I can offer
>>>
>>> Join Zoom Meeting
>>> https://iso.zoom.us/j/97800734479?pwd=OFFMazlWNDVPeXFxSHVWaGdqY2FIdz09
>>>
>>> Meeting ID: 978 0073 4479
>>> Passcode: 636614
>>>
>>>
>>> as an alternative meeting point until Mike arrives.
>>>
>>> Jens
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14/04/2022 20.10, Jens Maurer via SG19 wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I'm getting "Please wait for the host to start this meeting."
>>> >
>>> > Jens
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 13/04/2022 04.10, Michael Wong via SG19 wrote:
>>> >> Hi all, SG19 Machine Learning meeting will focus on
>>> Matrix/RL/calculus.
>>> >>
>>> >> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>>> >>
>>> >> Topic: SG19 monthly
>>> >> Time: 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) 1800 UTC Stats
>>> >> Every month on the Second Thu,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93084591725?pwd=K3QxZjJlcnljaE13ZWU5cTlLNkx0Zz09 <
>>> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93084591725?pwd=K3QxZjJlcnljaE13ZWU5cTlLNkx0Zz09>
>>> >> Password: 035530
>>> >>
>>> >> Or iPhone one-tap :
>>> >> US: +13017158592,,93084591725# or +13126266799,,93084591725#
>>> >> Or Telephone:
>>> >> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
>>> location):
>>> >> US: +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1 346 248 7799 or
>>> +1
>>> >> 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833 or +1 253 215 8782
>>> >> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
>>> >> Meeting ID: 930 8459 1725
>>> >> Password: 035530
>>> >> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/agewu4X97
>>> <https://iso.zoom.us/u/agewu4X97>
>>> >>
>>> >> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
>>> >> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93084591725 <
>>> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93084591725>
>>> >>
>>> >> Agenda:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. Opening and introductions
>>> >>
>>> >> The ISO Code of conduct:
>>> >>
>>> https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf
>>> <
>>> https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> IEC Code of Conduct:
>>> >>
>>> >> https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work <
>>> https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work>
>>> >>
>>> >> ISO patent policy.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>>> <
>>> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> The WG21 Practices and Procedures and Code of Conduct:
>>> >>
>>> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>>> <
>>> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>>> >>
>>> >> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>>> >>
>>> >> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
>>> >> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>>> >>
>>> >> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>>> >>
>>> >> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.1 General logistics
>>> >>
>>> >> Meeting plan, focus on one paper per meeting but does not preclude
>>> other paper updates:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Apr 14, 2022 02:00 pm ET/1800 UTC: Matrix/Reinforcement Learning
>>> and
>>> >> Differential Calculus
>>> >> May 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Stats
>>> >> June 9, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Graph
>>> >> Jul 14, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: RL and DC
>>> >> Aug 11, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Stats
>>> >> Sep 13, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Graph
>>> >> Oct 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: RL/DC
>>> >>
>>> >> ISO meeting status
>>> >>
>>> >> future C++ Std meetings
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2 Paper reviews
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.1: ML topics
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.1.1 Graph Proposal Phil Ratsloff et al
>>> >>
>>> >> Latest paper:
>>> >>
>>> >> Here’s a link to the paper (different than the previous paper
>>> reviewed).
>>> >> There are some additional updates I’m planning on making before the
>>> meeting.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OpH-xxRri7tJTtJJIZTYmSHkkrZJkdBwm9zJ7LqolfQ/edit?usp=sharing
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OpH-xxRri7tJTtJJIZTYmSHkkrZJkdBwm9zJ7LqolfQ/edit?usp=sharing
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> P1709R3:
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kLHhbSTX7j0tPeTYECQFSNx3R35Mu3xO5_dyYdRy4dM/edit?usp=sharing
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kLHhbSTX7j0tPeTYECQFSNx3R35Mu3xO5_dyYdRy4dM/edit?usp=sharing
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QkfDzGyfNQKs86y053M0YHOLP6frzhTJqzg1Ug_vkkE/edit?usp=sharing
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QkfDzGyfNQKs86y053M0YHOLP6frzhTJqzg1Ug_vkkE/edit?usp=sharing
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html
>>> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html>>
>>> >>
>>> >> <
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/175wIm8o4BNGti0WLq8U6uZORegKVjmnpfc-_E8PoGS0/edit?ts=5fff27cd#heading=h.9ogkehmdmtel
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/175wIm8o4BNGti0WLq8U6uZORegKVjmnpfc-_E8PoGS0/edit?ts=5fff27cd#heading=h.9ogkehmdmtel
>>> >
>>> >> *>*
>>> >>
>>> >> Array copy semantics:
>>> >> array copy-semantics paper P1997 "Relaxing Restrictions on Arrays",
>>> >> https://wg21.link/p1997 <https://wg21.link/p1997>
>>> >>
>>> >> Stats feedback:
>>> >>
>>> >> P2376R0
>>> >> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2376r0.pdf
>>> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2376r0.pdf>>
>>> >> Comments
>>> >> on Simple Statistical Functions (p1708r4): Contracts, Exceptions and
>>> >> Special cases Johan Lundberg
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.1.2 Reinforcement Learning Larry Lewis Jorge Silva
>>> >>
>>> >> Reinforcement Learning proposal:
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.1.3 Differential Calculus:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/175wIm8o4BNGti0WLq8U6uZORegKVjmnpfc-_E8PoGS0/edit?ts=5fff27cd#heading=h.9ogkehmdmtel
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/175wIm8o4BNGti0WLq8U6uZORegKVjmnpfc-_E8PoGS0/edit?ts=5fff27cd#heading=h.9ogkehmdmtel
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.1.4 <http://2.2.1.4>: Stats paper
>>> >>
>>> >> Current github
>>> >>
>>> >> https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/475 <
>>> https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/475>
>>> >>
>>> >> https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/979 <
>>> https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/979>
>>> >>
>>> >> Stats review Richard Dosselman et al
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p1708r4.pdf <
>>> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p1708r4.pdf>
>>> >>
>>> >> Feedback from Johan Lundberg and Oleksandr Korval
>>> >>
>>> >> https://isocpp.org/files/papers/D2376R0.pdf <
>>> https://isocpp.org/files/papers/D2376R0.pdf>
>>> >>
>>> >> P1708R3: Math proposal for Machine Learning: 3rd review
>>> >>
>>> >> PXXXX: combinatorics: 1st Review
>>> >>
>>> >> *> std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p1708r2 <
>>> http://std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p1708r2>
>>> >> <http://std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p1708r2 <
>>> http://std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p1708r2>>*
>>> >> *> above is the stats paper that was reviewed in Prague*
>>> >> *> http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21prague/P1708R2SG19 <
>>> http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21prague/P1708R2SG19>
>>> >> <http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21prague/P1708R2SG19 <
>>> http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21prague/P1708R2SG19>>*
>>> >> *>*
>>> >> *> Review Jolanta Polish feedback.*
>>> >> *>
>>> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html <
>>> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html>
>>> >> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html
>>> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html>>*
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.1.4 <http://2.2.1.4>: Matrix paper
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.3 any other proposal for reviews?
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.3 Other Papers and proposals
>>> >>
>>> >> P1416R1: SG19 - Linear Algebra for Data Science and Machine Learning
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IKUNiUhBgRURW-UkspK7fAAyIhfXuMxjk7xKikK4Yp8/edit#heading=h.tj9hitg7dbtr
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IKUNiUhBgRURW-UkspK7fAAyIhfXuMxjk7xKikK4Yp8/edit#heading=h.tj9hitg7dbtr
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> P1415: Machine Learning Layered list
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1elNFdIXWoetbxjO1OKol_Wj8fyi4Z4hogfj5tLVSj64/edit#heading=h.tj9hitg7dbtr
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1elNFdIXWoetbxjO1OKol_Wj8fyi4Z4hogfj5tLVSj64/edit#heading=h.tj9hitg7dbtr
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.2.2 SG14 Linear Algebra progress:
>>> >> Different layers of proposal
>>> >>
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1poXfr7mUPovJC9ZQ5SDVM_1Nb6oYAXlK_d0ljdUAtSQ/edit
>>> <
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1poXfr7mUPovJC9ZQ5SDVM_1Nb6oYAXlK_d0ljdUAtSQ/edit
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>>> >>
>>> >> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
>>> >> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings <
>>> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings>
>>> >>
>>> >> None
>>> >>
>>> >> 3. Any other business
>>> >>
>>> >> New reflector
>>> >>
>>> >> http://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg19 <
>>> http://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg19>
>>> >>
>>> >> Old Reflector
>>> >> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!newtopic/sg19 <
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!newtopic/sg19>
>>> >> <
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/sg14 <
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/sg14>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Code and proposal Staging area
>>> >>
>>> >> 4. Review
>>> >>
>>> >> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
>>> >> working draft]
>>> >>
>>> >> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>>> >>
>>> >> 5. Closing process
>>> >>
>>> >> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 5.2 Future meeting
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Apr 14, 2022 02:00 pm ET/1800 UTC: Matrix/Reinforcement Learning
>>> and
>>> >> Differential Calculus
>>> >> May 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Stats
>>> >> June 9, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Graph
>>> >> Jul 14, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: RL and DC
>>> >> Aug 11, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Stats
>>> >> Sep 13, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: Graph
>>> >> Oct 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET/1800 UTC: RL/DC
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> SG19 mailing list
>>> SG19_at_[hidden]
>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg19
>>>
>> --
> SG19 mailing list
> SG19_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg19
>