C++ Logo

SG16

Advanced search

Subject: Re: Reminder: SG16 telecon tomorrow (Wednesday, 2020-06-10)
From: Hubert Tong (hubert.reinterpretcast_at_[hidden])
Date: 2020-06-10 14:23:22


On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 1:46 PM Corentin Jabot <corentinjabot_at_[hidden]>
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 19:28 Hubert Tong via SG16 <sg16_at_[hidden]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:48 AM Tom Honermann via SG16 <
>> sg16_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>> This is your friendly reminder that an SG16 telecon will be held
>>> tomorrow, Wednesday June 10th, at 19:30 UTC (timezone conversion
>>> <https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20200610T193000&p1=1440>).
>>> To attend, visit https://bluejeans.com/140274541 at the start of the
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>> The agenda for the meeting is:
>>>
>>> - Discuss terminology updates to strive for in C++23
>>> - P1859R0: Standard terminology character sets and encodings
>>> <https://wg21.link/p1859>
>>> - Establish priorities for terms to address.
>>> - Establish a methodology for drafting wording updates.
>>>
>>> This may be useful for an intermediate stage of the process of updating
>> the wording:
>>
>> Basic source character set:
>> set of abstract characters used for the description of source code for
>> the purposes of this document
>>
>
>
> I would like to see that gone entirely ultimately
>
>>
>> I think the "basic source character set" fails to be a "character set". I
>> believe the elements of a character set are mappings of values to abstract
>> characters.
>>
>> re: Basic execution character set: I believe that these characters have
>> some restrictions on their values and encoding. It would help to call these
>> out with a note to the definition.
>>
>
> I don't think we intend to remove the restrictions from where they are!
>
That's fine. I'm saying that the restrictions seem to define these in some
sense as well. A note to the entry, indicating the restrictions and where
they are established, could be useful.

>
>
>> re: Execution character set: I have qualms about claiming
>> representability of these in a char character literal. The term is
>> intended to encompass abstract characters whose encoding is multibyte.
>>
>
> This is one of the reason why we need to separate character set and
> character encoding.
> I think the expectation is that the code units size of the execution
> character set is <= sizeof(char)
>
>>
>> re: 3.1.2: You mean wchar_t?
>>
>> re: wording, we should not remove the indication that the interpretation
>> of character or string data is affected by locales.
>>
>
> We should because it is incorrect and we need to separate the core
> language, which has an implementation defined mechanism to decide which
> encoding use, which may or may not depend on locale, and the way which
> there are interpreted by library - which is currently always either locale
> dependant or encoding agnostic.
> A note to explain the relation would be useful though
>
Yes. A note (in the wording) with cross-references that help to find the
library wording that establishes the non-change to the status quo would be
appreciated.

>
>
>
>> The paper is not clear that the definitions section is intended to be
>> considered wording. From a procedural point of view, this is a serious
>> problem.
>>
>
>> The terms should come from the ISO/IEC 10646 definition. The Unicode
>> definitions fail to meet drafting requirements from the ISO/IEC Directives,
>> Part 2.
>>
>
> Can you clarify that please?
>
The definition shall be written in such a form that it can replace the term
in its context. It shall not start with an article (“the”, “a”) nor end
with a full stop. A definition shall not take the form of, or contain, a
requirement.

> Although we have some concensus we should copy the definitions we want to
> use in the standard to avoid too much cross references, and keep the
> standard somewhat self contained
>
I would also prefer the copying (with appropriate pointers to the original
source) to avoid incorporating-by-reference all the terms and definitions
from some other document.

> --
>> SG16 mailing list
>> SG16_at_[hidden]
>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg16
>>
>



SG16 list run by sg16-owner@lists.isocpp.org