Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2023 13:52:32 -0500
I'll need to do some research on the possibility of having side data
as a mechanism. I.e. go find out how it would work in the variety of
build, packaging, and compiler tools that are available. But I'm
wondering, since both Gaby and Olga mentioned it, if you can give
examples of running such tools in size constrained environments and
multiple tools needing to communicate. As I'm not familiar with
running compilers, build systems, and package managers outside of
desktop environments.
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 1:24 PM Gabriel Dos Reis via SG15
<sg15_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> Indeed. we also have to be mindful of binaries size constraints which are big issues for certain environments.
>
> -- Gaby
>
> ________________________________
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> on behalf of Olga Arkhipova via SG15 <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 10:47:53 AM
> To: sg15_at_[hidden] <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Cc: Olga Arkhipova <olgaark_at_[hidden]>; Charles-Henri Gros <Charles-Henri.Gros_at_[hidden]>
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> My assumption is that If you can launch a process, you know (or can figure out) its file location. And when you know the tool's exe full path, it is easy to change the extension on that path to, say, .toolcapabilities or .capabilities.json (or whatever we agree on) and this will be the capabilities file.
>
> The mechanism is effectively similar to .exe.config and .manifest on Windows.
>
> Olga
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> On Behalf Of Charles-Henri Gros via SG15
> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 10:26
> To: sg15_at_[hidden]
> Cc: Charles-Henri Gros <Charles-Henri.Gros_at_[hidden]>
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> An interesting idea, but I don't see how "easy to find" could be possible. I would probably end up asking the compiler to tell me where the file is, which defeats the purpose. If process startup costs are an issue, I suspect some form of caching would work better. As for maintainability, nothing prevents compiler vendors from having the data in an external file, even if the official interface is a command line option.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> on behalf of Olga Arkhipova via SG15 <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 10:30 PM
> To: sg15_at_[hidden]
> Cc: Olga Arkhipova
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> The paper proposes a call to an executable to produce a json format with the capabilities info. I am wondering if having a json file near the executable which would contain full info about what this tool supports would be more beneficial.
>
> An external (but easy to find) file will allow getting the tool information even without launching its process, which would be preferred in perf sensitive scenarios. I also think that it would be easier for tool vendors to create (and maintain) this file rather than to implement the suggested functionality in code.
>
> I think it should be at least included as a option.
>
> Thanks,
> Olga
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> On Behalf Of René Ferdinand Rivera Morell via SG15
> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 20:20
> To: ISO C++ Tooling Study Group <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Cc: René Ferdinand Rivera Morell <grafikrobot_at_[hidden]>
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> Following up on the discussions.. I've made some more edits to the paper (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Ffiles%2Fpapers%2FD2717R2.html__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpBrhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfR2tyuFD%24&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VA6wVy%2FRNbfSPD2XQyML11mNK8yN2UjRZHo%2BFASmlrg%3D&reserved=0 ) and wording PR (PDF attached).
>
> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:11 PM René Ferdinand Rivera Morell <grafikrobot_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > Just finished with the next revision of the tool introspection paper.
> > Two big changes:
> >
> > * Simplified the interface by removing bounded query of implementation support.
> > * Added hopefully full wording.
> >
> > Here's a preview of it:
> >
> > <https://url/
> > defense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fraw%2F__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpB
> > rhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfZnYgaSk%
> > 24&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40microsoft.com%7Cec22f7b43e7c4846e53d08db63
> > 8e7a9d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213235820890201
> > %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
> > k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=j%2F8k3gb0HDGDGt1ymfwWyGDB
> > bci8X27LrhVF%2Bd1zWVQ%3D&reserved=0
> > .githack.com%2Fgrafikrobot%2Fpapers%2Fmain%2Fwg21%2Fecosystem_is_intro
> > spect%2Fecosystem_is_introspect_P2717R1.html&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40
> > microsoft.com%7C5de839e4f77449e9698608db631859fa%7C72f988bf86f141af91a
> > b2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638212728826471561%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
> > WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000
> > %7C%7C%7C&sdata=t3CbkXu4m5QSNLy0O64AHOi87VMU%2BNr12hUxjktdbPE%3D&reser
> > ved=0>
> >
> > I'll add it to the "to be mailed" queue in about 24 hours. Would
> > welcome commentary and proofreading before then.
> >
> > --
> > -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell
> > -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supone Nada
> > -- Robot Dreams -
> > https://urld/
> > efense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Frobot%2F__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpB
> > rhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfZjxsz6h%
> > 24&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40microsoft.com%7Cec22f7b43e7c4846e53d08db63
> > 8e7a9d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213235821046425
> > %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
> > k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=S2LSI7GfS4QsD7ypFcSoeDnAB6
> > 0vW8q3N7V3p%2F6fkRg%3D&reserved=0
> > -dreams.net%2F&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40microsoft.com%7C5de839e4f77449
> > e9698608db631859fa%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638212
> > 728826471561%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> > zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8lcqs3A0zJzmRH
> > qMJmkj3V80ac79IJvda6StehDmG9I%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> --
> -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell
> -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supone Nada
> -- Robot Dreams - https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Frobot-dreams.net%2F__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpBrhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfb-kPRWc%24&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JIrjnjM6uMi2RUHU3Ze%2B%2Fwh7nmTg5c7Wp2%2BWsKNX2F0%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> SG15 mailing list
> SG15_at_[hidden]
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg15__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpBrhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfaf2nX7X%24&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hmQiALTYB%2FGBv6%2FvJxEGf9%2F7n76wFsJS1nfai2MXSP8%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> SG15 mailing list
> SG15_at_[hidden]
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg15&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AOgECzzrOz1bVG%2Bh4XOMDiXMSsOvoUUClN0GAxRk0PU%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> SG15 mailing list
> SG15_at_[hidden]
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg15&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AOgECzzrOz1bVG%2Bh4XOMDiXMSsOvoUUClN0GAxRk0PU%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> SG15 mailing list
> SG15_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg15
as a mechanism. I.e. go find out how it would work in the variety of
build, packaging, and compiler tools that are available. But I'm
wondering, since both Gaby and Olga mentioned it, if you can give
examples of running such tools in size constrained environments and
multiple tools needing to communicate. As I'm not familiar with
running compilers, build systems, and package managers outside of
desktop environments.
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 1:24 PM Gabriel Dos Reis via SG15
<sg15_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> Indeed. we also have to be mindful of binaries size constraints which are big issues for certain environments.
>
> -- Gaby
>
> ________________________________
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> on behalf of Olga Arkhipova via SG15 <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 10:47:53 AM
> To: sg15_at_[hidden] <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Cc: Olga Arkhipova <olgaark_at_[hidden]>; Charles-Henri Gros <Charles-Henri.Gros_at_[hidden]>
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> My assumption is that If you can launch a process, you know (or can figure out) its file location. And when you know the tool's exe full path, it is easy to change the extension on that path to, say, .toolcapabilities or .capabilities.json (or whatever we agree on) and this will be the capabilities file.
>
> The mechanism is effectively similar to .exe.config and .manifest on Windows.
>
> Olga
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> On Behalf Of Charles-Henri Gros via SG15
> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 10:26
> To: sg15_at_[hidden]
> Cc: Charles-Henri Gros <Charles-Henri.Gros_at_[hidden]>
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> An interesting idea, but I don't see how "easy to find" could be possible. I would probably end up asking the compiler to tell me where the file is, which defeats the purpose. If process startup costs are an issue, I suspect some form of caching would work better. As for maintainability, nothing prevents compiler vendors from having the data in an external file, even if the official interface is a command line option.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> on behalf of Olga Arkhipova via SG15 <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 10:30 PM
> To: sg15_at_[hidden]
> Cc: Olga Arkhipova
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> The paper proposes a call to an executable to produce a json format with the capabilities info. I am wondering if having a json file near the executable which would contain full info about what this tool supports would be more beneficial.
>
> An external (but easy to find) file will allow getting the tool information even without launching its process, which would be preferred in perf sensitive scenarios. I also think that it would be easier for tool vendors to create (and maintain) this file rather than to implement the suggested functionality in code.
>
> I think it should be at least included as a option.
>
> Thanks,
> Olga
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SG15 <sg15-bounces_at_[hidden]> On Behalf Of René Ferdinand Rivera Morell via SG15
> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 20:20
> To: ISO C++ Tooling Study Group <sg15_at_[hidden]>
> Cc: René Ferdinand Rivera Morell <grafikrobot_at_[hidden]>
> Subject: Re: [SG15] P2717R1, EcoIS Introspection
>
> Following up on the discussions.. I've made some more edits to the paper (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Ffiles%2Fpapers%2FD2717R2.html__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpBrhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfR2tyuFD%24&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VA6wVy%2FRNbfSPD2XQyML11mNK8yN2UjRZHo%2BFASmlrg%3D&reserved=0 ) and wording PR (PDF attached).
>
> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:11 PM René Ferdinand Rivera Morell <grafikrobot_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > Just finished with the next revision of the tool introspection paper.
> > Two big changes:
> >
> > * Simplified the interface by removing bounded query of implementation support.
> > * Added hopefully full wording.
> >
> > Here's a preview of it:
> >
> > <https://url/
> > defense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fraw%2F__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpB
> > rhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfZnYgaSk%
> > 24&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40microsoft.com%7Cec22f7b43e7c4846e53d08db63
> > 8e7a9d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213235820890201
> > %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
> > k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=j%2F8k3gb0HDGDGt1ymfwWyGDB
> > bci8X27LrhVF%2Bd1zWVQ%3D&reserved=0
> > .githack.com%2Fgrafikrobot%2Fpapers%2Fmain%2Fwg21%2Fecosystem_is_intro
> > spect%2Fecosystem_is_introspect_P2717R1.html&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40
> > microsoft.com%7C5de839e4f77449e9698608db631859fa%7C72f988bf86f141af91a
> > b2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638212728826471561%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
> > WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000
> > %7C%7C%7C&sdata=t3CbkXu4m5QSNLy0O64AHOi87VMU%2BNr12hUxjktdbPE%3D&reser
> > ved=0>
> >
> > I'll add it to the "to be mailed" queue in about 24 hours. Would
> > welcome commentary and proofreading before then.
> >
> > --
> > -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell
> > -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supone Nada
> > -- Robot Dreams -
> > https://urld/
> > efense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Frobot%2F__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpB
> > rhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfZjxsz6h%
> > 24&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40microsoft.com%7Cec22f7b43e7c4846e53d08db63
> > 8e7a9d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213235821046425
> > %7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
> > k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=S2LSI7GfS4QsD7ypFcSoeDnAB6
> > 0vW8q3N7V3p%2F6fkRg%3D&reserved=0
> > -dreams.net%2F&data=05%7C01%7Colgaark%40microsoft.com%7C5de839e4f77449
> > e9698608db631859fa%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638212
> > 728826471561%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
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> > qMJmkj3V80ac79IJvda6StehDmG9I%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> --
> -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell
> -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supone Nada
> -- Robot Dreams - https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Frobot-dreams.net%2F__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpBrhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfb-kPRWc%24&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JIrjnjM6uMi2RUHU3Ze%2B%2Fwh7nmTg5c7Wp2%2BWsKNX2F0%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> SG15 mailing list
> SG15_at_[hidden]
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg15__%3B!!A4F2R9G_pg!Z60yxNvejpBrhjfgzgKxEcefEEJFti7QDn-wk-AMGVSBhrH1zzSVq-EUjERlQjZ82Oa0zLRWfaf2nX7X%24&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hmQiALTYB%2FGBv6%2FvJxEGf9%2F7n76wFsJS1nfai2MXSP8%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> SG15 mailing list
> SG15_at_[hidden]
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg15&data=05%7C01%7Cgdr%40microsoft.com%7Cd9fb6641725a4dd0ad8308db6391812c%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638213248830973020%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AOgECzzrOz1bVG%2Bh4XOMDiXMSsOvoUUClN0GAxRk0PU%3D&reserved=0
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-- -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supone Nada -- Robot Dreams - http://robot-dreams.net
Received on 2023-06-02 18:52:47