Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2025 16:33:54 -0400
Notes:
The meeting discussed the progress and future plans for C++ standards.
C++26 is feature-complete, and C++29 is underway. Upcoming events include
CPPCON on September 14 and SG 14/SG 19 meetings on September 17. The team
reviewed the implementation of Hive/Colony, emphasizing a lower memory cost
version for embedded systems. Matthew Bentley proposed using a bit set
stack to optimize memory usage. Patrice provided a progress report on his
games paper, noting positive feedback and ongoing improvements. The
discussion also covered the need for padding bits in data structures, with
concerns about their practicality and potential standardization.Action Items
- [ ] Implement the bit set stack optimization for Hive
- [ ] Provide an update on the evolution and socialization Games papers
- [ ] Incorporate feedback and prepare R3 version of the evolution Games
paper
Meeting Kickoff and Attendance
- Matthew mentions difficulty in joining meetings due to time zone
differences and reliance on emails.
- Michael acknowledges the time difference and confirms attendance of
various participants including Michael, Andre, Jens, Maurer, Khalil,
Estelle, Matt Bentley, Patrice, Waugh, Pedro, and Rodrigo.
- Michael notes the usual ISO code of conduct and patent policies, and
transitions to the main agenda items: C++23 and C++26 data.
- Speaker 2 discusses the upcoming CPPCON conference on September 14 and
the SG 14 and SG 19 meetings on September 17.
- The meeting schedule is outlined: embedded on September 10, finance on
October 8, face-to-face meeting in Hawaii on November 12, and games on
December 10.
- The meeting time is adjusted to accommodate Matthew Bentley and
Patrice's schedules.
- Michael asks for topics to be discussed, starting with Matthew.
Matthew Bentley's Presentation on Hive/Colony Implementation
- Matthew Bentley presents an implementation for Hive/Colony, focusing
on a lower memory cost version suitable for embedded and scarce platforms.
- He explains the importance of having alternative implementations to
avoid being blocked by API indices.
- Matthew shares his work-in-progress implementation for bitset stat,
which uses a bit set stack to optimize searching for the first one or zero
in a bit set.
- He details the performance benefits of the bit set stack, including a
significant reduction in search time for large bit sets.
Discussion on Hive/Colony Implementation and Call for Volunteers
- Michael and other participants discuss the implications of using a bit
set stack in Hive/Colony, including potential memory savings and
performance improvements.
- Matthew calls for volunteers to help implement the new version of
Hive/Colony, emphasizing the substantial work required.
- Michael and other participants ask questions about the implementation,
including its compatibility with existing Hive/Colony specifications and
potential standardization efforts.
- The discussion highlights the need for further exploration and
potential standardization to ensure the new implementation is compatible
with existing standards.
Patrice's Progress Report on Games Paper
- Patrice provides a progress report on his games paper, mentioning that
he has submitted two papers and is working on an R1 paper.
- He discusses the feedback received on the papers and the need to
address certain issues before the next meeting.
- Patrice emphasizes the importance of the games paper and the need for
continued work to ensure it meets the committee's standards.
- The discussion includes potential changes to the paper based on
feedback and the need for further collaboration to finalize the work.
Feedback on Games Evolution and Socialization Papers
- Patrice discusses the feedback received on the evolution and social
papers, highlighting the positive and negative reactions.
- He mentions the need to explore alternative implementations and
attributes to address the concerns raised.
- The discussion includes potential changes to the papers based on
feedback and the need for further exploration to ensure the proposals meet
the committee's standards.
- Patrice emphasizes the importance of the feedback and the need for
continued work to refine the proposals.
Discussion on Padding Bits and Reflection
- The discussion shifts to the concept of padding bits and their
potential use in detecting unused bits in data structures.
- Participants express concerns about the practicality of padding bits
and the need for better use cases to justify their inclusion.
- The potential use of reflection to detect padding bits is discussed,
with participants highlighting the benefits and limitations of this
approach.
- The discussion includes the need for further exploration and potential
standardization to ensure the feature meets the committee's standards.
Conclusion and Next Steps
- The meeting concludes with a summary of the key points discussed,
including the need for further work on the Hive/Colony implementation, the
games paper, and the padding bits feature.
- Participants are encouraged to provide feedback and continue working
on the proposed changes.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 7:43 PM andrew drakeford via SG14 <
sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> Many apologies for my absence. I was unwell. However, I will be
> attending CppCon and look forward to meeting you.
>
> Kind regards
> Andrew Drakeford
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* SG14 <sg14-bounces_at_[hidden]> on behalf of Andre Kostur
> via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2025 10:01 PM
> *To:* sg14_at_[hidden] <sg14_at_[hidden]>
> *Cc:* Andre Kostur <andre_at_[hidden]>
> *Subject:* Re: [isocpp-sg14] August SG14 8/13 6 pm ET
>
> Yeah, it's probably the same re-used link. It also claims Feb 10, a
> few years ago.
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 2:59 PM Matt Bentley via SG14
> <sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > Zoom meeting link is saying it's scheduled for 8am, I'm assuming this
> > isn't problematic?
> >
> > On 14/08/2025 2:05 am, Michael Wong via SG14 wrote:
> > > Hi all, this month's SG14 meeting will be inverted to
> > > accommodate Oceania/Asia time Zones. It will be held at 6 pm ET on
> > > Wednesday instead of the regular 2 pm slot.
> > >
> > > Matthew Bentey will lead some of the discussion on embedded. We also
> > > have Patrice game paper.
> > >
> > > Are there any other papers of interest? Thanks.
> > >
> > > Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
> > >
> > > Topic: SG14 monthly
> > > Time: 2nd Wednesdays 06:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> > > Every month on the Second Wed,
> > >
> > > Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fj%2F93151864365%3Fpwd%3DaDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168234394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Vq5vLvyfp8iMj1fi2Z6nB3pEEqwoJ6hIYTn3hjKZGtQ%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fj%2F93151864365%3Fpwd%3DaDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168263114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8lHaQE4e5hfI9m0rS3ele%2FNbDFS1jgSmafStKaYUMYk%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09>>
> > > Password: 789626
> > >
> > > Or iPhone one-tap :
> > > US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
> > > Or Telephone:
> > > Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
> location):
> > > US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or
> +1
> > > 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833
> > > or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> > > Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365
> > > Password: 789626
> > > International numbers available:
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fu%2FabRrVivZoD&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168277367%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YqmbvyvGWn8X6HM2wGm83wM9oGz%2BpyGlho4Me4L8rOI%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fu%2FabRrVivZoD&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168292468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AiNGpXOtOvV5K45GWg%2Bh6bI%2B5g4T324HUpQ6hrOv7BM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD>>
> > >
> > > Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fskype%2F93151864365&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168306580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f4YM89JkoZSAjSix5WR5s5Pdd2%2Bn545l8MUXyZfm5%2FM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365> <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168320182%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GqKO7U6vN54zqx43ApDHFAcBgyq6VNiRk%2F217BqTOm8%3D&reserved=0
> > > skype/93151864365>
> > >
> > > Agenda:
> > >
> > > 1. Opening and introduction
> > >
> > > ISO Code of Conduct
> > > <
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2Flivelink%2Flivelink&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168333467%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0gZc1gGNi3nlxw6RsvDqAtmbLvgLU6oROlNXABBawEk%3D&reserved=0?
> <https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink>
> > >
> func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
> <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20882226%26objAction%3DOpen%26nexturl%3D%252Flivelink%252Flivelink%253Ffunc%253Dll%2526objId%253D20158641%2526objAction%253Dbrowse%2526viewType%253D1&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168347014%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iSL62RcobWgDUoNGAtrob4U8L9rszA3gK%2FT1sF86Dqc%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1>
> >
> > > *>*
> > >
> > > ISO patent policy.
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%2Ffetch%2F2000%2F2122%2F3770791%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168361211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TEsaU29%2B96ZClj7qE93q3%2BFlVIKmXOJpuehcgeB5SD8%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/>
> > > Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2 <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168375164%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zu3rOjGvJxk0qP8rZqstAlcwlGuKb%2BpYOO5%2FiRvKC4I%3D&reserved=0
> > > livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?
> > > nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2>
> > >
> > > IEC Code of Conduct:
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iec.ch%2Fbasecamp%2Fiec-code-conduct-technical-work&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168391969%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9o2M1YgKTFEpPkrjWSJwXiy1CtOVyR7oygtHyBtdEcU%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work> <https://
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iec.ch%2Fbasecamp%2Fiec-code-conduct-technical-work&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168405627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3qESrnLVU6J0P4A6Iou%2Ba2klEPad%2BBvJG5IX4uHTJkk%3D&reserved=0>
> <http://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work>
> > >
> > > WG21 Code of Conduct:
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fstanding-documents%2Fsd-4-wg21-practices-and-&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168419078%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aQx3B8DhA3TSCa46upLORw2vSUEYozPTpoFBt%2FUnIWc%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and->
> > > procedures <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fstanding-documents%2Fsd-4-wg21-&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168432669%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9Ic%2FmvStLFwg9t94sjdtEoQuZ8ZcbuRC1gaAlGBlTIs%3D&reserved=0
> > > practices-and-procedures>
> > >
> > > 1.1 Roll call of participants
> > >
> > > 1.2 Adopt agenda
> > >
> > > 1.3 Approve minutes from the previous meeting, and approve publishing
> > > previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
> > >
> > > 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
> > >
> > > 2. Main issues (125 min)
> > >
> > > 2.1 General logistics
> > >
> > > 2024 planning
> > > C++23 and C++26 status
> > > CPPCON SG14/19
> > >
> > > Future and past meeting plans
> > >
> > > * Jan 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> > > * Feb 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Hagenberg F2F; Cancelled
> > > * Mar 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: DST cancelled
> > > * Apr 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * May 7, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > > * June 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Sofia F2F cancelled
> > > * July 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: cancelled
> > > * Aug 13, 2025 06:00 PM ET: Embedded
> > > * Sep 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON 9/14
> > > * Oct 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * Nov 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: F2F
> > > * Dec 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > >
> > >
> > > 2.2 Paper reviews
> > > Embedded:
> > > * P3132 Accept attributes with user-defined prefixes
> > > * P3134 Attribute [[asserts_rvo]]
> > > Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pure.ed.ac.uk%2Fws%2Fportalfiles%2Fportal%2F78829292%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168446165%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NS%2FZuJM6JgdAPGauc27%2FCGlnzKQAlMvOi6fmQfnCbPA%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/>
> > > low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf <https://
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pure.ed.ac.uk%2Fws%2Fportalfiles%2Fportal%2F78829292%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168459115%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HSbVBI4g%2Bro%2FdC%2FDZF%2BVKKx00vqlPhNGk7LQGo7f0wo%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/>
> > > low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf>
> > >
> > > Freestanding Updates
> > >
> > > Games paper review
> > >
> > > Arthur's suggestions:
> > > (1) I put in the Slack channel
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcpplang.slack.com%2Farchives%2FC3TK2M6HH%2Fp1703947057425609&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168473171%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rz9Z8EleH9gysAEYjhfw6077nAIxX1O%2FudvU2683zqg%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcpplang.slack.com%2Farchives%2FC3TK2M6HH%2Fp1703947057425609&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168487082%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tXYTnqE0JVFmL3a3jmVfgfvTJAZUl6hJQqHM%2FeKWNNE%3D&reserved=0
> <https://cpplang.slack.com/archives/C3TK2M6HH/p1703947057425609>>> a while
> > > ago Clang PR #76596 <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168501681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=u6UokA3DCFeMmrOV7zqJge4q23ImycDIHPgASpo0slA%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168515432%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jOUOXRpbHuT9RVNVMktnsYChuLwGb2R0Mb4oqeCpXo0%3D&reserved=0
> <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596>>>, from
> > > one Max Winkler, apparently in game dev. I don't think the PR stands
> much
> > > chance of getting merged into Clang; but it might still be of interest
> to
> > > SG14 folks. The issue description is very long and somewhat detailed,
> and
> > > then there's more discussion/debate in the comments
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596%23issuecomment-1872601156&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168528947%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdAGx6Da%2FmAyyhyaeolgXIsTumoSrBB2DxPwucyJIvA%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596%23issuecomment-1872601156&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168547069%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GZQsgWlCDx3GPL%2BGLiGpxre76o%2FpmMb7g7EiKNvoLcQ%3D&reserved=0
> <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596#issuecomment-1872601156>
> >>.
> > > (I'd actually be interested in talking to Max, but he doesn't publish
> his
> > > email address on GitHub and I guess that might be on purpose.)
> > >
> > > (2) LEWG will be seeing my P3055 "Relax wording to permit relocation
> > > optimizations in the STL"
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquuxplusone.github.io%2Fdraft%2Fd3055-relocation.html&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168562564%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qEU48%2BNrj3aJ44BVNAbgIlGZUCJCFZ3T42Q6UorQctE%3D&reserved=0
> <https://
> > > quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d3055-relocation.html>> in a telecon on
> > > February 20th. (Related blog post.
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquuxplusone.github.io%2Fblog%2F2024%2F01%2F02%2Fbsl-vector-erase%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168577464%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ab%2BnhTQRTNnRAuuyRBzNpxczdxSTOJ7lM05k8bPQzFg%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquuxplusone.github.io%2Fblog%2F2024%2F01%2F02%2Fbsl-vector-erase%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168592038%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ej1AVPYkgVKM9Ee%2BT0x9JiIU%2BobK2Wg9wzfDAYfRrIg%3D&reserved=0
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2024/01/02/bsl-vector-erase/>>>) Might
> > > be interesting to folks who do EASTL-style containers. I'd be
> interested in
> > > early feedback and/or telecon attendance.
> > >
> > >
> > > Discussion on Embedded:
> > > Paul's suggestions
> > > The next meeting would then be Embedded and I would be interested in
> > > knowing if people think a module std.freestanding is worth pursuing.
> > > In that context I'd like to get some feedback perhaps already for the
> > > upcoming meeting, if people have started using modules, and if so if
> it has
> > > brought the promised expectations or if you are holding back if you
> see any
> > > relevance in modules.
> > >
> > > Review latest mailings:
> > > P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
> > > Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
> > > P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
> > > We might want to chime in here.
> > > /Paul
> > > P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
> > >
> > >
> > > Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2022%2Fp1839r4.pdf&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168606356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LCNVZCzre5hiZRt2MP09%2FV7Wt4CyPfSdzLHvhydYYMk%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2022%2Fp1839r4.pdf&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168620319%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IWlS7oFcUBIMgXYmA8m00kGDkmwBLYX4ArQ43NXMEfE%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Discussion about Games topics:
> > >
> > > P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2021%2Fp2388r1.html&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168633735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=egnzVhiP0QoSZa6vAQWyTQFlIFv763ry9bBKGEYHq7Q%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2021%2Fp2388r1.html&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168647962%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VnqcXEngYdYCV9kwXLDyX4%2F64%2F5cHnSmF7OVhk5M29E%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2Fd%2F1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168661548%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TKe3a5sdSP3CfZfR%2B6mv9C18G7sB9Koo8Q5AwOA11Bs%3D&reserved=0
> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP-->
> > > P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0 <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168674768%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LARj5k3mTExJraHKtWfUW2bAz94ZInZMehwuQ96vDKg%3D&reserved=0
> > > d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0>
> > >
> > > 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
> > >
> > > 2.3.1 SIG chairs
> > >
> > > - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and
> Odin
> > > Holmes, John McFarlane
> > >
> > > - Financial/Trading chairs: Robin Rowe, Staffan TjernstrÃm
> > > Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> > > - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson,
> Patrice Roy
> > >
> > > - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
> > >
> > > 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
> > >
> > > 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
> > >
> > > 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fmeetings-and-participation%2Fupcoming-meetings&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168688960%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VIJ3jqSqmMQuvjDoG1uGDIs10ukzEos%2F%2F8vBIk1q740%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fmeetings-and-participation%2Fupcoming-meetings&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168704940%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0QQfv0QWm47y4Ugy%2FK9EF67IPK2cR19S08nlYzLczUY%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings>>
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > 3. Any other business
> > > Reflector
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg14&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168719119%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E7RealQupxqF6u3MM1FRgbfP8E9W3584kUguFKllA%2FA%3D&reserved=0
> <https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14> <https://
> > > lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14>
> > > As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards
> committee
> > > paper mailings:
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fopen-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168732519%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=x%2FangqcqNUZekjANCvUV%2BbDDz4sxvlBiqfIPpbMSLwo%3D&reserved=0
> <http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/> <http://open-
> > > std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/>
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fopen-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2016%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168746274%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NgMcC9t2Q1d4zt5Cy6yWBvVumR2QCcc2rjlluwuC8BA%3D&reserved=0
> <http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/> <http://open-
> > > std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/>
> > >
> > > Code and proposal Staging area
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWG21-SG14%2FSG14&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168759782%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Msi4ZMvkuzJWRBEaZZTpEqjJALE25v1FXLzOOuU%2Bm%2BM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14> <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWG21-SG14%2FSG14&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168773862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ua0vs0w%2BiDYb3KROIrlmEu6V3uaBF9b%2BRHKaTjxC7Hg%3D&reserved=0
> <https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14>>
> > > 4. Review
> > >
> > > 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> > > working draft]
> > >
> > > 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
> > >
> > > 5. Closing process
> > >
> > > 5.1 Establish next agenda
> > >
> > > 5.2 Future meeting
> > >
> > >
> > > Future and past meeting plans
> > >
> > > * Jan 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> > > * Feb 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Hagenberg F2F; Cancelled
> > > * Mar 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: DST cancelled
> > > * Apr 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * May 7, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > > * June 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Sofia F2F cancelled
> > > * July 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: cancelled
> > > * Aug 13, 2025 06:00 PM ET: Embedded
> > > * Sep 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON 9/14
> > > * Oct 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * Nov 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: F2F
> > > * Dec 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > SG14 mailing list
> > > SG14_at_[hidden]
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg14&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168787422%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=v%2B17xl8IBdLaGN6bc4XT3DMU1IL%2BhsvbKV%2FUduwB9f0%3D&reserved=0
> <https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SG14 mailing list
> > SG14_at_[hidden]
> >
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> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
> SG14 mailing list
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> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>
The meeting discussed the progress and future plans for C++ standards.
C++26 is feature-complete, and C++29 is underway. Upcoming events include
CPPCON on September 14 and SG 14/SG 19 meetings on September 17. The team
reviewed the implementation of Hive/Colony, emphasizing a lower memory cost
version for embedded systems. Matthew Bentley proposed using a bit set
stack to optimize memory usage. Patrice provided a progress report on his
games paper, noting positive feedback and ongoing improvements. The
discussion also covered the need for padding bits in data structures, with
concerns about their practicality and potential standardization.Action Items
- [ ] Implement the bit set stack optimization for Hive
- [ ] Provide an update on the evolution and socialization Games papers
- [ ] Incorporate feedback and prepare R3 version of the evolution Games
paper
Meeting Kickoff and Attendance
- Matthew mentions difficulty in joining meetings due to time zone
differences and reliance on emails.
- Michael acknowledges the time difference and confirms attendance of
various participants including Michael, Andre, Jens, Maurer, Khalil,
Estelle, Matt Bentley, Patrice, Waugh, Pedro, and Rodrigo.
- Michael notes the usual ISO code of conduct and patent policies, and
transitions to the main agenda items: C++23 and C++26 data.
- Speaker 2 discusses the upcoming CPPCON conference on September 14 and
the SG 14 and SG 19 meetings on September 17.
- The meeting schedule is outlined: embedded on September 10, finance on
October 8, face-to-face meeting in Hawaii on November 12, and games on
December 10.
- The meeting time is adjusted to accommodate Matthew Bentley and
Patrice's schedules.
- Michael asks for topics to be discussed, starting with Matthew.
Matthew Bentley's Presentation on Hive/Colony Implementation
- Matthew Bentley presents an implementation for Hive/Colony, focusing
on a lower memory cost version suitable for embedded and scarce platforms.
- He explains the importance of having alternative implementations to
avoid being blocked by API indices.
- Matthew shares his work-in-progress implementation for bitset stat,
which uses a bit set stack to optimize searching for the first one or zero
in a bit set.
- He details the performance benefits of the bit set stack, including a
significant reduction in search time for large bit sets.
Discussion on Hive/Colony Implementation and Call for Volunteers
- Michael and other participants discuss the implications of using a bit
set stack in Hive/Colony, including potential memory savings and
performance improvements.
- Matthew calls for volunteers to help implement the new version of
Hive/Colony, emphasizing the substantial work required.
- Michael and other participants ask questions about the implementation,
including its compatibility with existing Hive/Colony specifications and
potential standardization efforts.
- The discussion highlights the need for further exploration and
potential standardization to ensure the new implementation is compatible
with existing standards.
Patrice's Progress Report on Games Paper
- Patrice provides a progress report on his games paper, mentioning that
he has submitted two papers and is working on an R1 paper.
- He discusses the feedback received on the papers and the need to
address certain issues before the next meeting.
- Patrice emphasizes the importance of the games paper and the need for
continued work to ensure it meets the committee's standards.
- The discussion includes potential changes to the paper based on
feedback and the need for further collaboration to finalize the work.
Feedback on Games Evolution and Socialization Papers
- Patrice discusses the feedback received on the evolution and social
papers, highlighting the positive and negative reactions.
- He mentions the need to explore alternative implementations and
attributes to address the concerns raised.
- The discussion includes potential changes to the papers based on
feedback and the need for further exploration to ensure the proposals meet
the committee's standards.
- Patrice emphasizes the importance of the feedback and the need for
continued work to refine the proposals.
Discussion on Padding Bits and Reflection
- The discussion shifts to the concept of padding bits and their
potential use in detecting unused bits in data structures.
- Participants express concerns about the practicality of padding bits
and the need for better use cases to justify their inclusion.
- The potential use of reflection to detect padding bits is discussed,
with participants highlighting the benefits and limitations of this
approach.
- The discussion includes the need for further exploration and potential
standardization to ensure the feature meets the committee's standards.
Conclusion and Next Steps
- The meeting concludes with a summary of the key points discussed,
including the need for further work on the Hive/Colony implementation, the
games paper, and the padding bits feature.
- Participants are encouraged to provide feedback and continue working
on the proposed changes.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 7:43 PM andrew drakeford via SG14 <
sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> Many apologies for my absence. I was unwell. However, I will be
> attending CppCon and look forward to meeting you.
>
> Kind regards
> Andrew Drakeford
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* SG14 <sg14-bounces_at_[hidden]> on behalf of Andre Kostur
> via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2025 10:01 PM
> *To:* sg14_at_[hidden] <sg14_at_[hidden]>
> *Cc:* Andre Kostur <andre_at_[hidden]>
> *Subject:* Re: [isocpp-sg14] August SG14 8/13 6 pm ET
>
> Yeah, it's probably the same re-used link. It also claims Feb 10, a
> few years ago.
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 2:59 PM Matt Bentley via SG14
> <sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > Zoom meeting link is saying it's scheduled for 8am, I'm assuming this
> > isn't problematic?
> >
> > On 14/08/2025 2:05 am, Michael Wong via SG14 wrote:
> > > Hi all, this month's SG14 meeting will be inverted to
> > > accommodate Oceania/Asia time Zones. It will be held at 6 pm ET on
> > > Wednesday instead of the regular 2 pm slot.
> > >
> > > Matthew Bentey will lead some of the discussion on embedded. We also
> > > have Patrice game paper.
> > >
> > > Are there any other papers of interest? Thanks.
> > >
> > > Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
> > >
> > > Topic: SG14 monthly
> > > Time: 2nd Wednesdays 06:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> > > Every month on the Second Wed,
> > >
> > > Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fj%2F93151864365%3Fpwd%3DaDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168234394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Vq5vLvyfp8iMj1fi2Z6nB3pEEqwoJ6hIYTn3hjKZGtQ%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fj%2F93151864365%3Fpwd%3DaDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168263114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8lHaQE4e5hfI9m0rS3ele%2FNbDFS1jgSmafStKaYUMYk%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09>>
> > > Password: 789626
> > >
> > > Or iPhone one-tap :
> > > US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
> > > Or Telephone:
> > > Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
> location):
> > > US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or
> +1
> > > 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833
> > > or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> > > Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365
> > > Password: 789626
> > > International numbers available:
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fu%2FabRrVivZoD&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168277367%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YqmbvyvGWn8X6HM2wGm83wM9oGz%2BpyGlho4Me4L8rOI%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fu%2FabRrVivZoD&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168292468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AiNGpXOtOvV5K45GWg%2Bh6bI%2B5g4T324HUpQ6hrOv7BM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD>>
> > >
> > > Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2Fskype%2F93151864365&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168306580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f4YM89JkoZSAjSix5WR5s5Pdd2%2Bn545l8MUXyZfm5%2FM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365> <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiso.zoom.us%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168320182%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GqKO7U6vN54zqx43ApDHFAcBgyq6VNiRk%2F217BqTOm8%3D&reserved=0
> > > skype/93151864365>
> > >
> > > Agenda:
> > >
> > > 1. Opening and introduction
> > >
> > > ISO Code of Conduct
> > > <
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2Flivelink%2Flivelink&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168333467%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0gZc1gGNi3nlxw6RsvDqAtmbLvgLU6oROlNXABBawEk%3D&reserved=0?
> <https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink>
> > >
> func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
> <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20882226%26objAction%3DOpen%26nexturl%3D%252Flivelink%252Flivelink%253Ffunc%253Dll%2526objId%253D20158641%2526objAction%253Dbrowse%2526viewType%253D1&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168347014%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iSL62RcobWgDUoNGAtrob4U8L9rszA3gK%2FT1sF86Dqc%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1>
> >
> > > *>*
> > >
> > > ISO patent policy.
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%2Ffetch%2F2000%2F2122%2F3770791%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168361211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TEsaU29%2B96ZClj7qE93q3%2BFlVIKmXOJpuehcgeB5SD8%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/>
> > > Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2 <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisotc.iso.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168375164%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zu3rOjGvJxk0qP8rZqstAlcwlGuKb%2BpYOO5%2FiRvKC4I%3D&reserved=0
> > > livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?
> > > nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2>
> > >
> > > IEC Code of Conduct:
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iec.ch%2Fbasecamp%2Fiec-code-conduct-technical-work&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168391969%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9o2M1YgKTFEpPkrjWSJwXiy1CtOVyR7oygtHyBtdEcU%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work> <https://
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iec.ch%2Fbasecamp%2Fiec-code-conduct-technical-work&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168405627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3qESrnLVU6J0P4A6Iou%2Ba2klEPad%2BBvJG5IX4uHTJkk%3D&reserved=0>
> <http://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work>
> > >
> > > WG21 Code of Conduct:
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fstanding-documents%2Fsd-4-wg21-practices-and-&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168419078%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aQx3B8DhA3TSCa46upLORw2vSUEYozPTpoFBt%2FUnIWc%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and->
> > > procedures <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fstanding-documents%2Fsd-4-wg21-&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168432669%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9Ic%2FmvStLFwg9t94sjdtEoQuZ8ZcbuRC1gaAlGBlTIs%3D&reserved=0
> > > practices-and-procedures>
> > >
> > > 1.1 Roll call of participants
> > >
> > > 1.2 Adopt agenda
> > >
> > > 1.3 Approve minutes from the previous meeting, and approve publishing
> > > previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
> > >
> > > 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
> > >
> > > 2. Main issues (125 min)
> > >
> > > 2.1 General logistics
> > >
> > > 2024 planning
> > > C++23 and C++26 status
> > > CPPCON SG14/19
> > >
> > > Future and past meeting plans
> > >
> > > * Jan 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> > > * Feb 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Hagenberg F2F; Cancelled
> > > * Mar 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: DST cancelled
> > > * Apr 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * May 7, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > > * June 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Sofia F2F cancelled
> > > * July 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: cancelled
> > > * Aug 13, 2025 06:00 PM ET: Embedded
> > > * Sep 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON 9/14
> > > * Oct 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * Nov 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: F2F
> > > * Dec 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > >
> > >
> > > 2.2 Paper reviews
> > > Embedded:
> > > * P3132 Accept attributes with user-defined prefixes
> > > * P3134 Attribute [[asserts_rvo]]
> > > Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pure.ed.ac.uk%2Fws%2Fportalfiles%2Fportal%2F78829292%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168446165%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NS%2FZuJM6JgdAPGauc27%2FCGlnzKQAlMvOi6fmQfnCbPA%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/>
> > > low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf <https://
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pure.ed.ac.uk%2Fws%2Fportalfiles%2Fportal%2F78829292%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168459115%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HSbVBI4g%2Bro%2FdC%2FDZF%2BVKKx00vqlPhNGk7LQGo7f0wo%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/>
> > > low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf>
> > >
> > > Freestanding Updates
> > >
> > > Games paper review
> > >
> > > Arthur's suggestions:
> > > (1) I put in the Slack channel
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcpplang.slack.com%2Farchives%2FC3TK2M6HH%2Fp1703947057425609&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168473171%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rz9Z8EleH9gysAEYjhfw6077nAIxX1O%2FudvU2683zqg%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcpplang.slack.com%2Farchives%2FC3TK2M6HH%2Fp1703947057425609&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168487082%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tXYTnqE0JVFmL3a3jmVfgfvTJAZUl6hJQqHM%2FeKWNNE%3D&reserved=0
> <https://cpplang.slack.com/archives/C3TK2M6HH/p1703947057425609>>> a while
> > > ago Clang PR #76596 <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168501681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=u6UokA3DCFeMmrOV7zqJge4q23ImycDIHPgASpo0slA%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168515432%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jOUOXRpbHuT9RVNVMktnsYChuLwGb2R0Mb4oqeCpXo0%3D&reserved=0
> <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596>>>, from
> > > one Max Winkler, apparently in game dev. I don't think the PR stands
> much
> > > chance of getting merged into Clang; but it might still be of interest
> to
> > > SG14 folks. The issue description is very long and somewhat detailed,
> and
> > > then there's more discussion/debate in the comments
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596%23issuecomment-1872601156&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168528947%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdAGx6Da%2FmAyyhyaeolgXIsTumoSrBB2DxPwucyJIvA%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fllvm%2Fllvm-project%2Fpull%2F76596%23issuecomment-1872601156&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168547069%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GZQsgWlCDx3GPL%2BGLiGpxre76o%2FpmMb7g7EiKNvoLcQ%3D&reserved=0
> <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596#issuecomment-1872601156>
> >>.
> > > (I'd actually be interested in talking to Max, but he doesn't publish
> his
> > > email address on GitHub and I guess that might be on purpose.)
> > >
> > > (2) LEWG will be seeing my P3055 "Relax wording to permit relocation
> > > optimizations in the STL"
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquuxplusone.github.io%2Fdraft%2Fd3055-relocation.html&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168562564%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qEU48%2BNrj3aJ44BVNAbgIlGZUCJCFZ3T42Q6UorQctE%3D&reserved=0
> <https://
> > > quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d3055-relocation.html>> in a telecon on
> > > February 20th. (Related blog post.
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquuxplusone.github.io%2Fblog%2F2024%2F01%2F02%2Fbsl-vector-erase%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168577464%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ab%2BnhTQRTNnRAuuyRBzNpxczdxSTOJ7lM05k8bPQzFg%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fquuxplusone.github.io%2Fblog%2F2024%2F01%2F02%2Fbsl-vector-erase%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168592038%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ej1AVPYkgVKM9Ee%2BT0x9JiIU%2BobK2Wg9wzfDAYfRrIg%3D&reserved=0
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2024/01/02/bsl-vector-erase/>>>) Might
> > > be interesting to folks who do EASTL-style containers. I'd be
> interested in
> > > early feedback and/or telecon attendance.
> > >
> > >
> > > Discussion on Embedded:
> > > Paul's suggestions
> > > The next meeting would then be Embedded and I would be interested in
> > > knowing if people think a module std.freestanding is worth pursuing.
> > > In that context I'd like to get some feedback perhaps already for the
> > > upcoming meeting, if people have started using modules, and if so if
> it has
> > > brought the promised expectations or if you are holding back if you
> see any
> > > relevance in modules.
> > >
> > > Review latest mailings:
> > > P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
> > > Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
> > > P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
> > > We might want to chime in here.
> > > /Paul
> > > P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
> > >
> > >
> > > Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2022%2Fp1839r4.pdf&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168606356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LCNVZCzre5hiZRt2MP09%2FV7Wt4CyPfSdzLHvhydYYMk%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2022%2Fp1839r4.pdf&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168620319%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IWlS7oFcUBIMgXYmA8m00kGDkmwBLYX4ArQ43NXMEfE%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Discussion about Games topics:
> > >
> > > P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2021%2Fp2388r1.html&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168633735%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=egnzVhiP0QoSZa6vAQWyTQFlIFv763ry9bBKGEYHq7Q%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2021%2Fp2388r1.html&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168647962%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VnqcXEngYdYCV9kwXLDyX4%2F64%2F5cHnSmF7OVhk5M29E%3D&reserved=0
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
> > >
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2Fd%2F1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168661548%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TKe3a5sdSP3CfZfR%2B6mv9C18G7sB9Koo8Q5AwOA11Bs%3D&reserved=0
> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP-->
> > > P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0 <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168674768%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LARj5k3mTExJraHKtWfUW2bAz94ZInZMehwuQ96vDKg%3D&reserved=0
> > > d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0>
> > >
> > > 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
> > >
> > > 2.3.1 SIG chairs
> > >
> > > - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and
> Odin
> > > Holmes, John McFarlane
> > >
> > > - Financial/Trading chairs: Robin Rowe, Staffan TjernstrÃm
> > > Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> > > - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson,
> Patrice Roy
> > >
> > > - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
> > >
> > > 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
> > >
> > > 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
> > >
> > > 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fmeetings-and-participation%2Fupcoming-meetings&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168688960%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VIJ3jqSqmMQuvjDoG1uGDIs10ukzEos%2F%2F8vBIk1q740%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings>
> > > <
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fisocpp.org%2Fstd%2Fmeetings-and-participation%2Fupcoming-meetings&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168704940%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0QQfv0QWm47y4Ugy%2FK9EF67IPK2cR19S08nlYzLczUY%3D&reserved=0
> <https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings>>
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > 3. Any other business
> > > Reflector
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.isocpp.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsg14&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168719119%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E7RealQupxqF6u3MM1FRgbfP8E9W3584kUguFKllA%2FA%3D&reserved=0
> <https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14> <https://
> > > lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14>
> > > As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards
> committee
> > > paper mailings:
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fopen-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168732519%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=x%2FangqcqNUZekjANCvUV%2BbDDz4sxvlBiqfIPpbMSLwo%3D&reserved=0
> <http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/> <http://open-
> > > std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/>
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fopen-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2016%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168746274%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NgMcC9t2Q1d4zt5Cy6yWBvVumR2QCcc2rjlluwuC8BA%3D&reserved=0
> <http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/> <http://open-
> > > std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/>
> > >
> > > Code and proposal Staging area
> > >
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWG21-SG14%2FSG14&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9ead3e360bf04a8930fa08dddab503ae%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638907193168759782%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Msi4ZMvkuzJWRBEaZZTpEqjJALE25v1FXLzOOuU%2Bm%2BM%3D&reserved=0
> <https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14> <
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> <https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14>>
> > > 4. Review
> > >
> > > 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> > > working draft]
> > >
> > > 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
> > >
> > > 5. Closing process
> > >
> > > 5.1 Establish next agenda
> > >
> > > 5.2 Future meeting
> > >
> > >
> > > Future and past meeting plans
> > >
> > > * Jan 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> > > * Feb 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Hagenberg F2F; Cancelled
> > > * Mar 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: DST cancelled
> > > * Apr 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * May 7, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > > * June 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Sofia F2F cancelled
> > > * July 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: cancelled
> > > * Aug 13, 2025 06:00 PM ET: Embedded
> > > * Sep 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON 9/14
> > > * Oct 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> > > * Nov 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: F2F
> > > * Dec 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Games
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > SG14 mailing list
> > > SG14_at_[hidden]
> > >
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SG14 mailing list
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Received on 2025-10-07 20:34:12