On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 1:04 PM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> Topic: SG14 Monthly This meeting is focused on Games and we can continue
> with the Games paper that
> was started in January, but we also have several other proposals lined up.
> Thank you all for the suggestions and happy holidays.
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>
> Topic: SG14 monthly
> Time: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> Every month on the Second Wed,
>
> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09
> Password: 789626
>
> Or iPhone one-tap :
> US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
> Or Telephone:
> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
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> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
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> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD
>
> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
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>
> Agenda:
>
> 1. Opening and introduction
>
> ISO Code of Conduct
> <
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
> *>*
>
> ISO patent policy.
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>
> IEC Code of Conduct:
>
> https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work
>
> WG21 Code of Conduct:
>
>
> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>
> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>
Guy Davidson, Andre Kostur, Ben Deane, Brett, Bryan St.Amour, Henry Miller,
Jake Favold, Nathan Owen, Patrice Roy, Paul Bendixen. Phil Ratzloft, Rene
Rivera, Robin Rowe, Vikram, John McFarlane, Michael Wong, andrew lumsdaine,
Michael caisse,

>
>
> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>
> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>
> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>
> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>
> 2.1 General logistics
>
> 2024 planning
> C++23 and C++26 status
>
> Future and past meeting plans
>
> * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
> * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29
> * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled
> * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
> * Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>
> upcoming conferences:
EMbo++ in Bokum March
ACCU April
C++Now open for paper, after ACCU
CPPNorth: mostly C++ but also multiple languages



> 2.2 Paper reviews
>
> Here is the latest draft of D1709r5 Graph Library for potential review in
> this week’s SG14 meeting on Wednesday.
> Enclosed.
>
Phil Ratzloff
Graph Library in the name needed?
supporting bipartite, multipartite graphs
graph, adjacency list, edge list interface for some algorithms
can use existing functionality to transform something into descriptor types
use existing std containers to define a graph
customization points used to get targetid

Not hypergraphs, parallel version of the algorithm, incoming edges (are
outgoing edges of the transpose matrix, and only a very few algo needs
both) on vertex, not want to limit it in the future

Patrice: Title 1.5: the «with» is misspelled
Isn't «DistanceValue» a strange name for a type (or type constraint)? Maybe
it's just me...
why void fns with output arguments? because we dont want the algorithm to
allocate so calling code is aware of the expected arguments
Ribin: why not return Boole? Just a design decision why not write
exceptions in the throw? We would have to pick a particular type


Patrice asks about freestanding concerns and suggest removing it so as not
to be slowed down
Breet mentions throws and exceptions causing problems for low-latency

breaking it up into 4 papers, gloassary, terms and definitions,
FAQ?
highlights?
SG6 review?

>
> Patrice's Games paper review D2966
>
> Arthur's suggestions:
> (1) I put in the Slack channel
> <https://cpplang.slack.com/archives/C3TK2M6HH/p1703947057425609> a while
> ago Clang PR #76596 <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596>,
> from one Max Winkler, apparently in game dev. I don't think the PR stands
> much chance of getting merged into Clang; but it might still be of interest
> to SG14 folks. The issue description is very long and somewhat detailed,
> and then there's more discussion/debate in the comments
> <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596#issuecomment-1872601156>.
> (I'd actually be interested in talking to Max, but he doesn't publish his
> email address on GitHub and I guess that might be on purpose.)
>
> (2) LEWG will be seeing my P3055 "Relax wording to permit relocation
> optimizations in the STL"
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d3055-relocation.html> in a telecon
> on February 20th. (Related blog post.
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2024/01/02/bsl-vector-erase/>) Might
> be interesting to folks who do EASTL-style containers. I'd be interested in
> early feedback and/or telecon attendance.
>
>
> Discussion on Embedded:
> Paul's suggestions
> The next meeting would then be Embedded and I would be interested in
> knowing if people think a module std.freestanding is worth pursuing.
> In that context I'd like to get some feedback perhaps already for the
> upcoming meeting, if people have started using modules, and if so if it has
> brought the promised expectations or if you are holding back if you see any
> relevance in modules.
>

For freestanding

Brtt's networking TS on Low latency.

>
> Review latest mailings:
> P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
> Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
> P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
> We might want to chime in here.
> /Paul
> P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
>
>
> Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf
>
> Patrice's paper on games.
>
> P2300
> Swift
>
>
>
> Discussion about Games topics:
>
> P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>
>
> Patrice's WIP on Games issues.
> Patrice's paper on games.
>
> P2300
> Swift
>
>
>
> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
>
> Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
>
> https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
>
> Freestanding?
>
> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
>
> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>
> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>
> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
> Holmes, John McFarlane
>
> - Financial/Trading chairs: Robin Rowe, Staffan TjernstrÃm
> Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson, Patrice Roy
>
> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>
> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>
> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>
> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>
> -
>
> 3. Any other business
> Reflector
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards committee
> paper mailings:
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>
> Code and proposal Staging area
> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> 4. Review
>
> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> working draft]
>
> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>
> 5. Closing process
>
> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>
> 5.2 Future meeting
>
>
> * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
> * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29
> * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled
> * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
> * Dec 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>