Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2025 08:17:28 +0000
On Wed, 26 Nov 2025, 23:33 Frederick Virchanza Gotham via Std-Proposals, <
std-proposals_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 11:14 PM Oliver Hunt wrote:
> >
> > No one can provide meaningful feedback to a proposal if there is no
> proposal.
>
>
> It's funny, I've been on this mailing list a few years but only in the
> last few days did I realise something. . .
>
> After I finished high school, I went to study electronic engineering .
> . . these were my kind of people . . . stripping wires in the lab and
> hooking up 555 timers to 7-segment-display encoders. Blowing the fuses
> in our ammeter once in a while.
>
> Then I went to go live in Asia for a while . . . and later I came back
> home and went to study computer science. These were __not__ my kind of
> people.
>
> It's funny, even though my strongest suit in electronics was always my
> programming skills, I still aligned much more to the stereotypical
> personality of an engineer.
>
> I think most of you folk on this mailing list are 'computer
> scientists'. You want stuff written down -- This should do This, That
> should do That. But I think an engineer -- I'm speaking
> stereotypically of course -- would much prefer a working prototype to
> play around with and come back and ask questions later.
>
Cool story, bro.
I don't think the distinction is between different personality types, I
think it's that you treat this mailing list like a social space. Somewhere
to chat and hang out while you discuss the latest cool idea you've had. The
anecdote above is a perfect example of this.
Those spaces certainly exist, both online and offline. There are C++
meetups, conferences, Reddit, <c++lounge> (or whatever it's called) on
stackoverflow, other mailing lists....
*But that's not what this list is for*. The people on this list do not want
it to be a chatroom, especially not one that is 90% dominated by one person
who constantly misuses the list as a chatroom.
If you did this in a physical meeting, just turned up week after week and
blathered about your own personal interests and ideas while other people
tried to get work done, you would be kicked out pretty quickly. I think
it's past the point where the list moderators might need to step in (I'm
one of them, but I've held off taking action as a moderator because we've
had disagreements in the post and I don't want to appear to be using the
mod powers because of personal clashes).
You are a disruptive presence on this list, and far too many threads here
are just you riffing and throwing ideas at the wall while other people ask
you to stop.
Stop it.
> In my own mind -- and yes I realise that I speak about one unique mind
> -- what I've give you all so far is more than enough to get talking
> about this. You have my original paper, you have Arthur's blog which
> is decent, and for the love of the sweet mother of divine Jesus Christ
> and the twelve apostles, I've given you a full working prototype. You
> can literally go on GodBolt and play around with my new compiler
> feature.
>
> Oliver I know we've been back and forth a few times, and as I've said
> to you I'm trying to accept with equanimity the contrast in our
> personalities, but sometimes I'm left thinking, "Why does this guy
> need the blatantly-obvious written down in black and white all the
> time when the code is very clear?". I mean I think my GodBolt link
> tells ya nearly everything you need to know -- you can edit the code a
> little, see what it does, add another base class and come back to me
> with "I notice it does X, but shouldn't it do Y instead?" -- that
> would open up discussion.
>
>
> > And voila you’ve just made the list useless for people who are willing
> to actually do the work you are at this point intentionally refusing to do.
>
>
> I'm preparing a paper on "std::chimeric_ptr" but I want more
> discussion on it first -- particularly I want to disassemble Thiago's
> argument that it's only use is to compensate for bad programming. I
> want to unravel that before putting a lot of work into writing
> something that I might disagree with later.
> --
> Std-Proposals mailing list
> Std-Proposals_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/std-proposals
>
std-proposals_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 11:14 PM Oliver Hunt wrote:
> >
> > No one can provide meaningful feedback to a proposal if there is no
> proposal.
>
>
> It's funny, I've been on this mailing list a few years but only in the
> last few days did I realise something. . .
>
> After I finished high school, I went to study electronic engineering .
> . . these were my kind of people . . . stripping wires in the lab and
> hooking up 555 timers to 7-segment-display encoders. Blowing the fuses
> in our ammeter once in a while.
>
> Then I went to go live in Asia for a while . . . and later I came back
> home and went to study computer science. These were __not__ my kind of
> people.
>
> It's funny, even though my strongest suit in electronics was always my
> programming skills, I still aligned much more to the stereotypical
> personality of an engineer.
>
> I think most of you folk on this mailing list are 'computer
> scientists'. You want stuff written down -- This should do This, That
> should do That. But I think an engineer -- I'm speaking
> stereotypically of course -- would much prefer a working prototype to
> play around with and come back and ask questions later.
>
Cool story, bro.
I don't think the distinction is between different personality types, I
think it's that you treat this mailing list like a social space. Somewhere
to chat and hang out while you discuss the latest cool idea you've had. The
anecdote above is a perfect example of this.
Those spaces certainly exist, both online and offline. There are C++
meetups, conferences, Reddit, <c++lounge> (or whatever it's called) on
stackoverflow, other mailing lists....
*But that's not what this list is for*. The people on this list do not want
it to be a chatroom, especially not one that is 90% dominated by one person
who constantly misuses the list as a chatroom.
If you did this in a physical meeting, just turned up week after week and
blathered about your own personal interests and ideas while other people
tried to get work done, you would be kicked out pretty quickly. I think
it's past the point where the list moderators might need to step in (I'm
one of them, but I've held off taking action as a moderator because we've
had disagreements in the post and I don't want to appear to be using the
mod powers because of personal clashes).
You are a disruptive presence on this list, and far too many threads here
are just you riffing and throwing ideas at the wall while other people ask
you to stop.
Stop it.
> In my own mind -- and yes I realise that I speak about one unique mind
> -- what I've give you all so far is more than enough to get talking
> about this. You have my original paper, you have Arthur's blog which
> is decent, and for the love of the sweet mother of divine Jesus Christ
> and the twelve apostles, I've given you a full working prototype. You
> can literally go on GodBolt and play around with my new compiler
> feature.
>
> Oliver I know we've been back and forth a few times, and as I've said
> to you I'm trying to accept with equanimity the contrast in our
> personalities, but sometimes I'm left thinking, "Why does this guy
> need the blatantly-obvious written down in black and white all the
> time when the code is very clear?". I mean I think my GodBolt link
> tells ya nearly everything you need to know -- you can edit the code a
> little, see what it does, add another base class and come back to me
> with "I notice it does X, but shouldn't it do Y instead?" -- that
> would open up discussion.
>
>
> > And voila you’ve just made the list useless for people who are willing
> to actually do the work you are at this point intentionally refusing to do.
>
>
> I'm preparing a paper on "std::chimeric_ptr" but I want more
> discussion on it first -- particularly I want to disassemble Thiago's
> argument that it's only use is to compensate for bad programming. I
> want to unravel that before putting a lot of work into writing
> something that I might disagree with later.
> --
> Std-Proposals mailing list
> Std-Proposals_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/std-proposals
>
Received on 2025-11-27 08:17:45