Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 04:16:55 -0700
> On Jul 18, 2025, at 2:44 AM, Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> Because you emailed it to Nevin and said "Please give me a document
> number" (I haven't got the email verbatim but I imagine words to those
> effect). You submitted that paper to be picked apart, scrutinised and
> analysed by tens of thousands of people worldwide. You threw that
> paper out into the abyss. It was actually quite brave of you to put
> yourself out there like that.
Reading, scrutinizing, picking apart, and similar are all things that people can do by reading a paper. You a free to read and scrutinize papers. No one has said you cannot.
I do not believe that any part of submitting a paper to WG21 puts it in the public domain, or requires granting others the right to arbitrarily repackage or republish papers in whole or in part without consent of the authors.
> Can we meet half-way on this? What if the Paper Kernel C++ were to
> start in 'Sincere Mode' without your papers? You would know that
> people who want to respect your wishes have been given the choice to
> respect your wishes.
That’s meaningless, and is a fairly odious approach to “consent” - you either respect my wishes or you do not. Including one version that does “respect” my refusal t consent to your usage is irrelevant if you still distribute a version that does not. This is not a matter of whether your users want to respect the fact that I did not consent to your use - my entire point is that this is not a choice you have the right to offer in the first place.
Again, my belief is that ISO’s IP policy means paper and report authors maintain copyright of their work, and reuse of that work in part or in full requires the explicit consent of the owners, and submitting papers and reports does not provide carte blanche permission for those papers and reports to be redistributed either directly or transformed into other forms by other members in their own projects.
Obviously you disagree with that, and are saying that in choosing to participate in WG21, members have granted you the right to use their work as you see fit, and if they don’t want that they can just choose not to publish papers or participate in the committee.
This is why I’ve CC’d Nevin: he’s more experienced that either of us, and even if he can’t give a direct answer to whether or not you need an authors consent to use their work in your project, he likely knows who can.
—Oliver
>
> Because you emailed it to Nevin and said "Please give me a document
> number" (I haven't got the email verbatim but I imagine words to those
> effect). You submitted that paper to be picked apart, scrutinised and
> analysed by tens of thousands of people worldwide. You threw that
> paper out into the abyss. It was actually quite brave of you to put
> yourself out there like that.
Reading, scrutinizing, picking apart, and similar are all things that people can do by reading a paper. You a free to read and scrutinize papers. No one has said you cannot.
I do not believe that any part of submitting a paper to WG21 puts it in the public domain, or requires granting others the right to arbitrarily repackage or republish papers in whole or in part without consent of the authors.
> Can we meet half-way on this? What if the Paper Kernel C++ were to
> start in 'Sincere Mode' without your papers? You would know that
> people who want to respect your wishes have been given the choice to
> respect your wishes.
That’s meaningless, and is a fairly odious approach to “consent” - you either respect my wishes or you do not. Including one version that does “respect” my refusal t consent to your usage is irrelevant if you still distribute a version that does not. This is not a matter of whether your users want to respect the fact that I did not consent to your use - my entire point is that this is not a choice you have the right to offer in the first place.
Again, my belief is that ISO’s IP policy means paper and report authors maintain copyright of their work, and reuse of that work in part or in full requires the explicit consent of the owners, and submitting papers and reports does not provide carte blanche permission for those papers and reports to be redistributed either directly or transformed into other forms by other members in their own projects.
Obviously you disagree with that, and are saying that in choosing to participate in WG21, members have granted you the right to use their work as you see fit, and if they don’t want that they can just choose not to publish papers or participate in the committee.
This is why I’ve CC’d Nevin: he’s more experienced that either of us, and even if he can’t give a direct answer to whether or not you need an authors consent to use their work in your project, he likely knows who can.
—Oliver
Received on 2025-07-18 11:17:08