Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 20:31:33 -0500
> I guess the best way forward is to send this proposal to WG21. I'll
try to convince Gasper to help me write
a response paper
Absolutely, you're welcome to do that. That's how the process works
and I trust good decisions to be made in voting. My sole interest is
standardizing existing practice and if there are compelling technical
reasons not to do so that is fine. This isn't personal to me, and I
wish it wasn't personal to people in this thread. While passionate
opinions are very understandable, it's too bad that conversations
about topics like this can't be had without frustration.
Jeremy
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 7:39 PM Ville Voutilainen
<ville.voutilainen_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 at 03:23, Jeremy Rifkin <rifkin.jer_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > I do recognize that standardizing it may be seen as legitimizing it.
> > The thing is many already see it as legitimate.
>
> That is an unconvincing reason to fuel the fire.
>
> > The two options are:
> > 1. People say it's portable/fine because every compiler supports it,
> > but there's no documentation about exactly how it works and no source
> > of truth for its semantics. 99.9% of people don't know what its
> > potential pitfalls are.
> > 2. There's a single source of truth for what it does, everyone can be
> > on the same page about where it could break.
> >
> > I reject the idea that "a sizeable amount of them will not understand
> > those clear rules." Even if cppref is too dense, stack overflow posts
> > will inevitably be updated with the appropriate advice.
>
> By all means reject that part of what I wrote, I don't mind. You seem
> to be missing
> the "and their consequences" part, although your option 1 is exactly that.
>
> > In both cases, yes people will use the feature. They already are and
> > they are going to continue to.
>
> I guess the best way forward is to send this proposal to WG21. I'll
> try to convince Gasper to help me write
> a response paper, and then hopefully the various stackoverflow
> discussions link to that response paper
> once WG21 rejects the proposal.
try to convince Gasper to help me write
a response paper
Absolutely, you're welcome to do that. That's how the process works
and I trust good decisions to be made in voting. My sole interest is
standardizing existing practice and if there are compelling technical
reasons not to do so that is fine. This isn't personal to me, and I
wish it wasn't personal to people in this thread. While passionate
opinions are very understandable, it's too bad that conversations
about topics like this can't be had without frustration.
Jeremy
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 7:39 PM Ville Voutilainen
<ville.voutilainen_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 at 03:23, Jeremy Rifkin <rifkin.jer_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > I do recognize that standardizing it may be seen as legitimizing it.
> > The thing is many already see it as legitimate.
>
> That is an unconvincing reason to fuel the fire.
>
> > The two options are:
> > 1. People say it's portable/fine because every compiler supports it,
> > but there's no documentation about exactly how it works and no source
> > of truth for its semantics. 99.9% of people don't know what its
> > potential pitfalls are.
> > 2. There's a single source of truth for what it does, everyone can be
> > on the same page about where it could break.
> >
> > I reject the idea that "a sizeable amount of them will not understand
> > those clear rules." Even if cppref is too dense, stack overflow posts
> > will inevitably be updated with the appropriate advice.
>
> By all means reject that part of what I wrote, I don't mind. You seem
> to be missing
> the "and their consequences" part, although your option 1 is exactly that.
>
> > In both cases, yes people will use the feature. They already are and
> > they are going to continue to.
>
> I guess the best way forward is to send this proposal to WG21. I'll
> try to convince Gasper to help me write
> a response paper, and then hopefully the various stackoverflow
> discussions link to that response paper
> once WG21 rejects the proposal.
Received on 2024-08-30 01:31:46