OK sounds good ,we will look at P3429. Andre will chair and start the zoom (and please take notes) as it will be 3 am here for me. Here is the agenda.

Hi, this SG14 meeting. We will focus on P4329. Are there any other papers?

Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: SG14 monthly
Time: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
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Agenda:

1. Opening and introduction

ISO Code of Conduct
<
https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
*>*

ISO patent policy.
https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2

IEC Code of Conduct:

https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work

WG21 Code of Conduct:

https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures

1.1 Roll call of participants

1.2 Adopt agenda

1.3 Approve minutes from the previous meeting, and approve publishing
previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org

1.4 Action items from previous meetings

2. Main issues (125 min)

2.1 General logistics

2024 planning
C++23 and C++26 status
CPPCON SG14/19

Future and past meeting plans

* Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
* Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
* Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
* Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
* May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
* June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29 DONE
* July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
* Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
* Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled DONE
* Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
* Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
* Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance

2.2 Paper reviews
Embedded:
* P3132 Accept attributes with user-defined prefixes
* P3134 Attribute [[asserts_rvo]]
Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf

Freestanding Updates

Games paper review

Arthur's suggestions:
(1) I put in the Slack channel
<https://cpplang.slack.com/archives/C3TK2M6HH/p1703947057425609> a while
ago Clang PR #76596 <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596>, from
one Max Winkler, apparently in game dev. I don't think the PR stands much
chance of getting merged into Clang; but it might still be of interest to
SG14 folks. The issue description is very long and somewhat detailed, and
then there's more discussion/debate in the comments
<https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596#issuecomment-1872601156>.
(I'd actually be interested in talking to Max, but he doesn't publish his
email address on GitHub and I guess that might be on purpose.)

(2) LEWG will be seeing my P3055 "Relax wording to permit relocation
optimizations in the STL"
<https://quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d3055-relocation.html> in a telecon on
February 20th. (Related blog post.
<https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2024/01/02/bsl-vector-erase/>) Might
be interesting to folks who do EASTL-style containers. I'd be interested in
early feedback and/or telecon attendance.

Discussion on Embedded:
Paul's suggestions
The next meeting would then be Embedded and I would be interested in
knowing if people think a module std.freestanding is worth pursuing.
In that context I'd like to get some feedback perhaps already for the
upcoming meeting, if people have started using modules, and if so if it has
brought the promised expectations or if you are holding back if you see any
relevance in modules.

Review latest mailings:
P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
We might want to chime in here.
/Paul
P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.

Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics

http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf

Discussion about Games topics:

P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>

2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?

SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0

2.3 Domain-specific discussions

2.3.1 SIG chairs

   - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
Holmes, John McFarlane

   - Financial/Trading chairs: Robin Rowe, Staffan TjernstrÃm
Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
   - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson, Patrice Roy

   - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson

2.4 Other Papers and proposals

2.5 Future F2F meetings:

2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings

-

3. Any other business
Reflector
https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards committee
paper mailings:
http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/

Code and proposal Staging area
https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
4. Review

4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
working draft]

4.2 Review action items (5 min)

5. Closing process

5.1 Establish next agenda

5.2 Future meeting

* Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
* Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
* Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
* Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
* May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
* June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29 DONE
* July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
* Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
* Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled
* Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
* Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Wroclaw F2F
* Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance

On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 7:00 PM Khalil Estell via SG14 <sg14@lists.isocpp.org> wrote:

I intend to attend tomorrow's meeting. I'd like to see the paper.
----
Khalil Estell
Volunteer & Mentor @ SJSU College of Engineering
Voting ISO C++ Committee member
Founder of the libhal organization & ecosystem

On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 7:07 AM Andre Kostur via SG14 <sg14@lists.isocpp.org> wrote:
I intended to be at tomorrow's meeting (and virtually in Wroclaw), if you’d like I could chair.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 9:54 AM Michael Wong via SG14 <sg14@lists.isocpp.org> wrote:
Thanks Paul for the call out.
Given that we are not having a meeting in Poland, I really would like to have this call on Wednesday at 2 pm ET.

I will unfortunately be travelling. I am still trying to figure out if I can manage the call from the opposite timezone around 2 am. Even if I were to get a volunteer to chair in my absence, I would still need to start the Zoom call which can only be done from my account.

But first thing first, any volunteer chair? Thank you. Regards

On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 11:37 AM Paul M. Bendixen via SG14 <sg14@lists.isocpp.org> wrote:
Hi
I'm not entirely sure if the idea was to have the meeting on Wednesday, but if we are, I'd like to add a paper to discuss.

P3429 "<meta> should minimize library dependencies" seems like the most important addition to the reflection discussion seen from the embedded side.
Even if <vector> and friends get in freestanding somehow (seems Ben is working on this) it could delay adoption in the embedded space if something like this paper is not considered.
Since the games industry is explicitly called out in the paper, it might be of interest there as well.

The paper is on the agenda for Poland, so perhaps a quick discussion beforehand could be good?

Best regards
Paul M. B. Bendixen

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