Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly This meeting is focused on GamesHi,Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.Topic: SG14 monthlyTime: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) Every month on the Second Wed,Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09 Password: 789626Or iPhone one-tap : US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#Or Telephone: Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location): US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833 or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free) Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365 Password: 789626 International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoDOr Skype for Business (Lync): https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365Agenda:1. Opening and introductionISO Code of Conduct<https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1*>*ISO patent policy.https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2IEC Code of Conduct:https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-workWG21 Code of Conduct:https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures1.1 Roll call of participants
Rene Rivera
Andrew Drajeford
Arthur O'Dwyer
Kim Nilsson
Staffan Tjernstrom
Arthur O'Dwyer
Matthew Butler
Timur Doumler
Michael Wong
Henry Miller
Chaeley Bay
Ronen Friedman
Jens Maurer
Tristan sizemore
Ka ming Chan
John MacFarlane
1.2 Adopt agenda1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org1.4 Action items from previous meetings2. Main issues (125 min)2.1 General logisticsFuture meeting plans
*June 8, 2022 02:00 PM ET: Games
*Jul 13, 2022 02:00 PM ET Embedded
*Aug 10, 2022 02:00 PM ET: Finance/Low Latency
*Sep 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET: Games
*Oct 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
2.2 Paper reviewsDiscussion on Embedded:Review latest mailings:P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers conceptBased on the last meeting and the discussions here.P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematicWe might want to chime in here./PaulP. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topicshttp://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdfPatrice's paper on games.P2300SwiftDiscussion about Games topics: P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>Patrice's WIP on Games issues.Finance topics from July 14, 2021.https://lists.isocpp.org/sg14/2021/06/0636.phphttps://lists.isocpp.org/sg14/2021/07/0642.php
std::hive suggestions by Arthur O'dwyer
did a template information
found wierdness
rope ,but not like a deque
can control blocks
but why larger than Y, why is a maximum blocksize is useful? Minimum yes I see
is it the memory allocator? but that is in bytes
3.2 max blocksize can cause big O times issues quadratic or linear?
fixed sized rope
AD: max because flatmaps, restricting size of the element they could have to use a simd instruction - but why would restrict it dynamically by teh user, probably ok by an implementation
has a hidden state, vector has capacity, copy does not have same capacity. But what about hive
transient property of a hive
Matthew B please contact Arthur OD regarding these comments
Embo happened.
- Financial/Trading chairs: Staffan TjernstrÃm
Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
P2590 implicit object creation
- Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson, Patrice Roy
- Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
Intel Dounia Khaldia working on matrix operations based on AMT
BLAS paper is in SG6
Aug timeframe for Bob and Guy paper
2.4 Other Papers and proposals
discussion about RUST
14:36:29 From Charles Bay to Everyone:
https://hirrolot.github.io/posts/rust-is-hard-or-the-misery-of-mainstream-programming.html14:37:06 From Henry Miller to Everyone:
rust is getting attention and we are shipping in some new things. bad programmers can write garbage code in any language, but the safety would be nice
14:40:10 From Tristan Sizemore to Everyone:
I have heard it lacks complexity/depth for some (performance) critical components of (trading/exchange) systems. One of the larger successful cryptocurrency exchanges uses it heavily for a large percentage of their core functionality, but are switching to C++ for the reasons mentioned. I have also heard compile times can be awful.
14:40:23 From Guy Davidson to Everyone:
https://twitter.com/h3r2tic/status/153282991819480678414:40:29 From Guy Davidson to Everyone:
https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/kajiya/blob/main/docs/gi-overview.md14:41:08 From Matthew Butler to Everyone:
Wow. Very smooth.
14:42:19 From Michael Wong to Everyone:
Here is one:
https://blog.sonatype.com/this-week-in-malware-may-13th-edition And here is another:
https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/rust-patches-sneaky-redos-bug14:43:44 From Michael Wong to Everyone:
https://openssf.org/oss-security-mobilization-plan/14:45:37 From Arthur O'Dwyer to Everyone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism :)
14:46:53 From Charles Bay to Everyone:
"Rust is mainstream like NodeJS is mainstream. NodeJS has less than 2% marketshare globally. Rust has 0.01% marketshare. Thus Rust is even less "mainstream" than NodeJS by a factor of ~200. For comparison, C++ still holds 23% marketshare. (Disclaimer: Percentages here are from a series of Google searches. Broad marketshare numbers are never accurate but can be useful for providing some perspective.)" ...from:
https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21483756&cid=6260143014:51:37 From Kim Nilsson to Everyone:
In my community the people are just waiting for the green light from above to start using Rust. Generally speaking I am seeing a strong correlation between fans of (hyper) modern C++ and fans of Rust.
14:52:26 From Matthew Butler to Everyone:
The use of UB and Ill-formed, NDR is a real killer for us on safety.
14:53:18 From John McFarlane to Everyone:
A lot of confusion around this: *nobody* advocates use of UB.
14:54:48 From John McFarlane to Everyone:
But for a formal model of what counts as a bug, either UB or something v. similar is invaluable.
14:58:44 From Kim Nilsson to Everyone:
Have to leave. Bye everyone!
15:00:26 From René Ferdinand Rivera Morell to Everyone:
https://ziglang.org/15:00:41 From Timur Doumler to Everyone:
I know some embedded people who are huge fans of Zig!
15:00:47 From Guy Davidson to Everyone:
https://ziglang.org/15:01:18 From John McFarlane to Everyone:
https://ziglang.org/learn/overview/#performance-and-safety-choose-two15:01:27 From Timur Doumler to Everyone:
Michael, you should ping David Sankel and ask him to give you his slides or a recording of his talk or something
15:01:38 From Timur Doumler to Everyone:
“Rust features I want to have in C++"
15:04:40 From Henry Miller to Everyone:
if you can't find someone I'll ask my boss about going, right now all travel still has to be approved but that should change
*Aug 10, 2022 02:00 PM ET: Finance/Low Latency
*Sep 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET: Games
*Oct 12, 2022 02:00 PM ET: Embedded