That's P3429, yes?

On Wed, Nov 13, 2024 at 5:05 AM Michael Wong via SG14
<sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> OK sounds good ,we will look at P3429. Andre will chair and start the zoom (and please take notes) as it will be 3 am here for me. Here is the agenda.
>
> Hi, this SG14 meeting. We will focus on P4329. Are there any other papers?
>
>
>
>
> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>
> Topic: SG14 monthly
> Time: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> Every month on the Second Wed,
>
> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09
> Password: 789626
>
> Or iPhone one-tap :
> US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
> Or Telephone:
> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
> US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1
> 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833
> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365
> Password: 789626
> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD
>
> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365
>
> Agenda:
>
> 1. Opening and introduction
>
> ISO Code of Conduct
> <
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
> *>*
>
> ISO patent policy.
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>
> IEC Code of Conduct:
>
> https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work
>
> WG21 Code of Conduct:
>
> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>
> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>
> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>
> 1.3 Approve minutes from the previous meeting, and approve publishing
> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>
> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>
> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>
> 2.1 General logistics
>
> 2024 planning
> C++23 and C++26 status
> CPPCON SG14/19
>
> Future and past meeting plans
>
> * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
> * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
> * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
> * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
> * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
> * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29 DONE
> * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
> * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
> * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled DONE
> * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
> * Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>
> 2.2 Paper reviews
> Embedded:
> * P3132 Accept attributes with user-defined prefixes
> * P3134 Attribute [[asserts_rvo]]
> Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
> https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
>
> Freestanding Updates
>
> Games paper review
>
> Arthur's suggestions:
> (1) I put in the Slack channel
> <https://cpplang.slack.com/archives/C3TK2M6HH/p1703947057425609> a while
> ago Clang PR #76596 <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596>, from
> one Max Winkler, apparently in game dev. I don't think the PR stands much
> chance of getting merged into Clang; but it might still be of interest to
> SG14 folks. The issue description is very long and somewhat detailed, and
> then there's more discussion/debate in the comments
> <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596#issuecomment-1872601156>.
> (I'd actually be interested in talking to Max, but he doesn't publish his
> email address on GitHub and I guess that might be on purpose.)
>
> (2) LEWG will be seeing my P3055 "Relax wording to permit relocation
> optimizations in the STL"
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d3055-relocation.html> in a telecon on
> February 20th. (Related blog post.
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2024/01/02/bsl-vector-erase/>) Might
> be interesting to folks who do EASTL-style containers. I'd be interested in
> early feedback and/or telecon attendance.
>
>
> Discussion on Embedded:
> Paul's suggestions
> The next meeting would then be Embedded and I would be interested in
> knowing if people think a module std.freestanding is worth pursuing.
> In that context I'd like to get some feedback perhaps already for the
> upcoming meeting, if people have started using modules, and if so if it has
> brought the promised expectations or if you are holding back if you see any
> relevance in modules.
>
> Review latest mailings:
> P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
> Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
> P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
> We might want to chime in here.
> /Paul
> P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
>
>
> Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
> Discussion about Games topics:
>
> P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
>
>
>
> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
>
> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>
> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>
> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
> Holmes, John McFarlane
>
> - Financial/Trading chairs: Robin Rowe, Staffan TjernstrÃm
> Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson, Patrice Roy
>
> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>
> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>
> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>
> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>
> -
>
> 3. Any other business
> Reflector
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards committee
> paper mailings:
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>
> Code and proposal Staging area
> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> 4. Review
>
> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> working draft]
>
> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>
> 5. Closing process
>
> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>
> 5.2 Future meeting
>
>
> * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
> * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
> * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
> * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
> * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
> * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29 DONE
> * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled
> * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Wroclaw F2F
> * Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>
> On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 7:00 PM Khalil Estell via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>
>> I intend to attend tomorrow's meeting. I'd like to see the paper.
>> ----
>> Khalil Estell
>> Volunteer & Mentor @ SJSU College of Engineering
>> Voting ISO C++ Committee member
>> Founder of the libhal organization & ecosystem
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 7:07 AM Andre Kostur via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I intended to be at tomorrow's meeting (and virtually in Wroclaw), if you’d like I could chair.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 9:54 AM Michael Wong via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Paul for the call out.
>>>> Given that we are not having a meeting in Poland, I really would like to have this call on Wednesday at 2 pm ET.
>>>>
>>>> I will unfortunately be travelling. I am still trying to figure out if I can manage the call from the opposite timezone around 2 am. Even if I were to get a volunteer to chair in my absence, I would still need to start the Zoom call which can only be done from my account.
>>>>
>>>> But first thing first, any volunteer chair? Thank you. Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 11:37 AM Paul M. Bendixen via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> I'm not entirely sure if the idea was to have the meeting on Wednesday, but if we are, I'd like to add a paper to discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>> P3429 "<meta> should minimize library dependencies" seems like the most important addition to the reflection discussion seen from the embedded side.
>>>>> Even if <vector> and friends get in freestanding somehow (seems Ben is working on this) it could delay adoption in the embedded space if something like this paper is not considered.
>>>>> Since the games industry is explicitly called out in the paper, it might be of interest there as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper is on the agenda for Poland, so perhaps a quick discussion beforehand could be good?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Paul M. B. Bendixen
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> • − − •/• −/• • −/• − • •/− • • •/•/− •/− • •/• •/− • • −/•/− •/• − − •− •/− − •/− −/• −/• •/• − • •/• − • − • −/− • − •/− − −/− −//
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SG14 mailing list
>>>>> SG14_at_[hidden]
>>>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SG14 mailing list
>>>> SG14_at_[hidden]
>>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SG14 mailing list
>>> SG14_at_[hidden]
>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SG14 mailing list
>> SG14_at_[hidden]
>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>
> _______________________________________________
> SG14 mailing list
> SG14_at_[hidden]
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14