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Re: [isocpp-sg14] SG14 Oct 9 2024 telecon

From: Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 14:04:37 -0400
Thanks Khalil, please join now.

On Wed, Oct 9, 2024 at 12:17 PM Khalil Estell via SG14 <
sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> I'll be there. I can go over my paper.
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2024, 09:16 Patrice Roy via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
> wrote:
>
>> I won't be there, sadly, as I have a meeting at work at the same time and
>> my presence there is required.
>>
>> Some updates, though:
>>
>> The paper on [[invalidate_dereferencing]] that was presented at CppCon
>> should be in the next mailing (it's pretty much done).
>>
>> There might be another one on a trait that has been requested by some
>> game developers that contacted me last month, and that I discussed a bit
>> with the ever wonderful Mark Hoemmen at CppCon. The idea is that
>> std::has_unique_object_representation<T> currently does not work with a
>> type T that has floating point data members (due in part to the potential
>> presence of NaN values), but there are use-cases for such a trait when user
>> code knows that the floating point numbers therein will not be NaN, or
>> (maybe) that the only NaN values that could occur would be some canonical
>> NaN with a fixed bit pattern. If I manage to clean it up in time for the
>> next mailing, I'll add this one too so feel free to react (either on this
>> list or directly through email) after you've read it. The tentative name
>> would be std::is_always_exhaustive<T> (taking the name from the work done
>> by the fine mdspan people if I understand correctly); we'll adjust if need
>> be.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le mer. 9 oct. 2024 à 11:07, Guy Davidson via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
>> a écrit :
>>
>>> I am happy to talk about P3375 reproducible floating-point arithmetic
>>> but I have already had plenty of SG14/19 time. I've just submitted R1 to
>>> the papers system, but I would much rather defer to other papers.
>>>
>>> On Wed, 9 Oct 2024 at 15:52, Bryan St. Amour via SG14 <
>>> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I may be a bit late, but I should be able to join today's call.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 08, 2024 at 04:07:20PM -0400, Michael Wong via SG14 wrote:
>>>> > Hi, this SG14 meeting will focus on Embedded.
>>>> > We can also continue the discussion on P2966. Are there any other
>>>> papers?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > P2966R0 – Making C++ Better for Game Developers: Progress Report
>>>> > https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2023/p2966r1.pdf
>>>> >
>>>> > Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>>>> > Other then Patrice's ongoing Games paper, are there ny other
>>>> discussions?
>>>> >
>>>> > Topic: SG14 monthly
>>>> > Time: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
>>>> > Every month on the Second Wed,
>>>> >
>>>> > Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
>>>> >
>>>> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09
>>>> > Password: 789626
>>>> >
>>>> > Or iPhone one-tap :
>>>> > US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
>>>> > Or Telephone:
>>>> > Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
>>>> location):
>>>> > US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or
>>>> +1
>>>> > 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833
>>>> > or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
>>>> > Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365
>>>> > Password: 789626
>>>> > International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD
>>>> >
>>>> > Or Skype for Business (Lync):
>>>> > https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365
>>>> >
>>>> > Agenda:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. Opening and introduction
>>>> >
>>>> > ISO Code of Conduct
>>>> > <
>>>> >
>>>> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
>>>> > *>*
>>>> >
>>>> > ISO patent policy.
>>>> >
>>>> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>>>> >
>>>> > IEC Code of Conduct:
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work
>>>> >
>>>> > WG21 Code of Conduct:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>>>> >
>>>> > 1.1 Roll call of participants
>>>>
>>> Guy, Paul, Andre, Bjarne, Brad, Gianluca, Jonas, Kris, Matthew, Rodrigo,

> >
>>>> > 1.2 Adopt agenda
>>>> >
>>>> > 1.3 Approve minutes from the previous meeting, and approve publishing
>>>> > previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>>>> >
>>>> > 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>>>> >
>>>> > 2. Main issues (125 min)
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.1 General logistics
>>>> >
>>>> > 2024 planning
>>>> > C++23 and C++26 status
>>>> > CPPCON SG14/19
>>>> >
>>>> > Future and past meeting plans
>>>> >
>>>> > * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
>>>> > * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
>>>> > * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
>>>> > * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
>>>> > * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
>>>> > * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29 DONE
>>>> > * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
>>>> > * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
>>>> > * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled DONE
>>>> > * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
>>>> > * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
>>>> > * Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.2 Paper reviews
>>>> > Embedded:
>>>> > * P3132 Accept attributes with user-defined prefixes
>>>> > * P3134 Attribute [[asserts_rvo]]
>>>> > Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
>>>> >
>>>> https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
>>>> >
>>>> > Freestanding Updates
>>>> >
>>>> > Games paper review
>>>> >
>>>> > Arthur's suggestions:
>>>> > (1) I put in the Slack channel
>>>> > <https://cpplang.slack.com/archives/C3TK2M6HH/p1703947057425609> a
>>>> while
>>>> > ago Clang PR #76596 <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596>,
>>>> from
>>>> > one Max Winkler, apparently in game dev. I don't think the PR stands
>>>> much
>>>> > chance of getting merged into Clang; but it might still be of
>>>> interest to
>>>> > SG14 folks. The issue description is very long and somewhat detailed,
>>>> and
>>>> > then there's more discussion/debate in the comments
>>>> > <
>>>> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596#issuecomment-1872601156
>>>> >.
>>>> > (I'd actually be interested in talking to Max, but he doesn't publish
>>>> his
>>>> > email address on GitHub and I guess that might be on purpose.)
>>>> >
>>>> > (2) LEWG will be seeing my P3055 "Relax wording to permit relocation
>>>> > optimizations in the STL"
>>>> > <https://quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d3055-relocation.html> in a
>>>> telecon on
>>>> > February 20th. (Related blog post.
>>>> > <https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2024/01/02/bsl-vector-erase/>)
>>>> Might
>>>> > be interesting to folks who do EASTL-style containers. I'd be
>>>> interested in
>>>> > early feedback and/or telecon attendance.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Discussion on Embedded:
>>>> > Paul's suggestions
>>>> > The next meeting would then be Embedded and I would be interested in
>>>> > knowing if people think a module std.freestanding is worth pursuing.
>>>> > In that context I'd like to get some feedback perhaps already for the
>>>> > upcoming meeting, if people have started using modules, and if so if
>>>> it has
>>>> > brought the promised expectations or if you are holding back if you
>>>> see any
>>>> > relevance in modules.
>>>> >
>>>> > Review latest mailings:
>>>> > P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
>>>> > Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
>>>> > P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
>>>> > We might want to chime in here.
>>>> > /Paul
>>>> > P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Discussion about Games topics:
>>>> >
>>>> > P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
>>>> > <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>>>> >
>>>> > - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and
>>>> Odin
>>>> > Holmes, John McFarlane
>>>> >
>>>> > - Financial/Trading chairs: Robin Rowe, Staffan TjernstrÃm
>>>> > Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
>>>> > - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson,
>>>> Patrice Roy
>>>> >
>>>> > - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>>>> >
>>>> > 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
>>>> > https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>>>> >
>>>> > -
>>>> >
>>>> > 3. Any other business
>>>> > Reflector
>>>> > https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>>> > As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards
>>>> committee
>>>> > paper mailings:
>>>> > http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
>>>> > http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>>>> >
>>>> > Code and proposal Staging area
>>>> > https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
>>>> > 4. Review
>>>> >
>>>> > 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
>>>> > working draft]
>>>> >
>>>> > 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>>>> >
>>>> > 5. Closing process
>>>> >
>>>> > 5.1 Establish next agenda
>>>> >
>>>> > 5.2 Future meeting
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
>>>> > * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
>>>> > * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
>>>> > * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance DONE
>>>> > * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
>>>> > * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29 DONE
>>>> > * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>>>> > * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
>>>> > * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled
>>>> > * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
>>>> > * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
>>>> > * Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>>>>
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > SG14 mailing list
>>>> > SG14_at_[hidden]
>>>> > https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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Received on 2024-10-09 18:04:55