On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 4:23 PM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> Hi, this SG14 meeting will focus on Finance/Low Latency
>
> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>
> Topic: SG14 monthly
> Time: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> Every month on the Second Wed,
>
> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09
> Password: 789626
>
> Or iPhone one-tap :
> US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
> Or Telephone:
> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
> US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1
> 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833
> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365
> Password: 789626
> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD
>
> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365
>
> Agenda:
>
> 1. Opening and introduction
>
> ISO Code of Conduct
> <
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
> *>*
>
> ISO patent policy.
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>
> IEC Code of Conduct:
>
> https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work
>
> WG21 Code of Conduct:
>
>
> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>
> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>
 Andre Kostur, Andrew Lumsdaine, Arthur ODWyer, Ben Sherman, Cryan St.
Amour, Gianluca, Delfino, Jake Favold, Josh Gebara, Lauri Vasama, Matthew
Butler, Phil Ratzloff, Ronen Friedman, Adarsh, Michael Wong, Jens Maurer,
Alisdaire Meredith


>
> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>
> 1.3 Approve minutes from the previous meeting, and approve publishing
> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>
> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>
> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>
> 2.1 General logistics
>
> 2024 planning
> C++23 and C++26 status
>
Tokyo F2F
 Contracts and Microsoft feedbacks
P1144 on trivially relocatable
May 15th Mailing deadline

   - 2024-06-24 to 29: St. Louis, MO, USA
   <https://isocpp.org/files/papers/N4966.pdf>; Bill Seymour
   [image: ArmsSmall.jpg]
   - 2024-11-18 to 23: Wrocław, Poland
   <https://isocpp.org/files/papers/N4974.pdf>; Nokia

C++26 Deadlines
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2023/p1000r5.pdf

>
>
> Future and past meeting plans
>
> * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
> * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
> * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
> * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games/ P3160 assigned to SG14 to discuss
> * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29
> * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled
> * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
> * Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>
> 2.2 Paper reviews
> Embedded:
> * P3132 Accept attributes with user-defined prefixes
> * P3134 Attribute [[asserts_rvo]]
> Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
>
> https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
>
> Freestanding Updates
>
> Games paper review
>
> Arthur's suggestions:
> (1) I put in the Slack channel
> <https://cpplang.slack.com/archives/C3TK2M6HH/p1703947057425609> a while
> ago Clang PR #76596 <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596>,
> from
> one Max Winkler, apparently in game dev. I don't think the PR stands much
> chance of getting merged into Clang; but it might still be of interest to
> SG14 folks. The issue description is very long and somewhat detailed, and
> then there's more discussion/debate in the comments
> <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/76596#issuecomment-1872601156>.
> (I'd actually be interested in talking to Max, but he doesn't publish his
> email address on GitHub and I guess that might be on purpose.)
>
> (2) LEWG will be seeing my P3055 "Relax wording to permit relocation
> optimizations in the STL"
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d3055-relocation.html> in a telecon
> on
> February 20th. (Related blog post.
> <https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2024/01/02/bsl-vector-erase/>) Might
> be interesting to folks who do EASTL-style containers. I'd be interested in
> early feedback and/or telecon attendance.
>
>
> Discussion on Embedded:
> Paul's suggestions
> The next meeting would then be Embedded and I would be interested in
> knowing if people think a module std.freestanding is worth pursuing.
> In that context I'd like to get some feedback perhaps already for the
> upcoming meeting, if people have started using modules, and if so if it has
> brought the promised expectations or if you are holding back if you see any
> relevance in modules.
>
> Review latest mailings:
> P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
> Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
> P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
> We might want to chime in here.
> /Paul
> P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
>
>
> Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf
>
>
> Who is in FInance

Please will someone stand to be Finance SIG chair?

Bryan St. Amour (Maystreet) ultra low latency, market feed, data handler,
high frequency, banks

-data capture side, network, packets, 0 allocation, without dropping to a
lower language

-cant do heap allocation, runtime eh is not fine

Nathan Owen(Maystreet) - embedded but now Finace

Ben Sherman (Chicago Trading) - market maker

-compile time evaluation, value semantics, type manip,

-strggle in type with iteration, transformation in constexpr values

Jake Fevold (Bloomberg) - finance media company

-contracts

-safety

Alisdair Meredith

-allocators, control memory location, low latency

Gianluca Delfino (maystreet)

- MS before, trivially relocatable object, reinterpret cast, in-place
vectors to know allocation, cache locality

-security (not on networks), memory/resource/dangling type of safety,
allocation, memory, locality, network facility, lifetimes

Josh Gebara (Bloomberg) - allocators, safety

Is there any grassroot movement to Rust? No from Maystreet. Concerned the
RUST hype vs C++ viability and investment. May be offer a C++ solutions to
memory safe RUST



>
>
>
> Discussion about Games topics:
>
> P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
>
>
>
> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
>
> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>
> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>
> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
> Holmes, John McFarlane
>
> - Financial/Trading chairs: Robin Rowe, Staffan TjernstrÃm
> Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson, Patrice Roy
>
> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>
> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>
Relocation: What is a trivially relocatable type
Asking SG14 to provide feedback on both proposals usefulness. Links to be
sent after the call
 P1144 Arthur
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p1144r10.html
uninitialized_copy expected to get a memcpy, have a continguous range, but
it is not
if there are special functions, it is not copy constructible then you have
to do an actual copy constructor in a loop
types that are trivially relocatable, on the object same as on the value,
can relocate existing objects
e.g. of these types are vector, unique_ptr,

can now have a Span of objects, when number is the same, then I can move
the objects around, copy/rotate/swap/permute, fastere because it is memove,
smaller , more eh safe,
in EWGI in Kona straw poll had no consensus
top down design
https://godbolt.org/z/o7jMo4E7e is the godbolt I was showing, btw
https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2018/07/13/trivially-copyable-corner-cases/
Is this useful for this feature?

P2786 Alisdair
Bottom up
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p2786r4.pdf
volatile that is relocatble makes sense? nothing that makes it impossible
in core lang, volatile int is trivially copyable,
but there are different types where it is under 1144,and under 2786
protection aginst your members, like third party, or Boost
this one prefers to trust the user
AO: what does that one function do? yes there is a semantic difference:
trust what they read, constraint their types reasons they dont want their
types to to be relocatable
IN EWG in Tokyo, 16/2 forward to core, one open question to resolve the
vexing parse
presented to LEWG, ok with the type traits, is it a building block?
this is a compiler feature with small library
have clang branch

can this solve their problem in this space?









>
> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>
> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>
> -
>
> 3. Any other business
> Reflector
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards committee
> paper mailings:
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>
> Code and proposal Staging area
> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> 4. Review
>
> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> working draft]
>
> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>
> 5. Closing process
>
> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>
> 5.2 Future meeting
>
>
> * Jan 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games DONE
> * Feb 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded DONE
> * Mar 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled due to Tokyo 3-18-23
> * Apr 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * May 8, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * June 12, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded; St.louis 6-24-29
> * July 10, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 14, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON Sept 15-20 so cancelled
> * Oct 9, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Nov 13, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled Wroclaw F2F
> * Dec 11, 2024 02:00 PM ET: Finance
>