Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2023 16:06:21 -0400
On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 11:34 PM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
wrote:
> Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly This meeting is focused on Finance/Low
> Latency though we can continue with the Games paper that
> was started in January, depending on what other papers or topics are of
> interest.
>
> I am also looking for a finance Subgroup chair. Thank you.
>
> Hi,
>
> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>
> Topic: SG14 monthly
> Time: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> Every month on the Second Wed,
>
> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09
> Password: 789626
>
> Or iPhone one-tap :
> US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
> Or Telephone:
> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
> US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1
> 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833
> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365
> Password: 789626
> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD
>
> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365
>
> Agenda:
>
> 1. Opening and introduction
>
> ISO Code of Conduct
> <
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
> *>*
>
> ISO patent policy.
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>
> IEC Code of Conduct:
>
> https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work
>
> WG21 Code of Conduct:
>
>
> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>
> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>
> Guy Davidson, John McFarlane, Patrice Roy
>
Arhtur O'Dwyer, Jake Fevold, Matthew Butler, Rene Morell, Ronen Friedman,
Michael Wong, Andrew Drakeford
Jens Maurer, Brett Searles, Matthew Bentley
> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>
> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>
> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>
> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>
> 2.1 General logistics
>
> Varna F2F
> C++23 and C++26 status
> cppcon sg14? maybe
>
> Future meeting plans
>
> *Mar 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> *Apr 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * May 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * June 14, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * July 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 9, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Oct 1: CPPCON
> * Oct 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> *Nov 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Kona F2F (Cancelled)
> * Dec 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
>
> 2.2 Paper reviews
> Discussion on Embedded:
> Review latest mailings:
> P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
> Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
> P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
> We might want to chime in here.
> /Paul
> P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
>
>
> Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf
>
> Patrice's paper on games.
>
> Arthur O has 2 papers for flatmap and flatset is going to R1
omnibus paper, first 6 sections went to LWG directly
https://quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d2767-flat-omnibus.html
>
>
>
>
> Discussion about Games topics:
>
> P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>
>
> Patrice's WIP on Games issues.
>
No content in this paper, just a feasibility study as to which feature we
want to pursue. This will break into many smaller actual papers
This paper is attached to this thread.
EASTL to address allocation alignment issues of original STL
today, dont rewrite vector and change semantics,
Need flatmap/set/hive/ring buffer
anything that allocates without explicit action is frowned upon, because it
affects framework, more about latency, PS and PC sorting algorithms, random
number algo varies and lacks determinism
allocation determinism is how long, and is latency
random number determinism is same number from same seed;RNG engines are
supposed to be deterministic in the standard.
(RNG determinism is mentioned in p1932.)
Distributions not so much.
requirements of games dev
speaking of "third-party STLs": There's a guy spending this summer to add
P1144 trivial relocation to HPX Stellar!
Latency rather than predictability
Performance = how long it takes to get a set amount of work done (in
practice)
Latency = the variability in terms of how long it takes to get the work done
In my view
P0406 Intrusive Containers link:
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/p0406r1.html
RF:Ceph (my project, in the Storage realm) uses intrusive containers
extensively
a multi-index container based on intrusive c is just being added to my part
of the code
AO: an (intrusive or std) list is a sequence container, whereas hive (as
currently proposed) is not — there's no way to insert into an arbitrary
position in a hive, like you can into a list.
My variant of hive now supports emplace_back and emplace_front, because
they're always cheap; but you physically can't support emplace(pos, args...)
Matthew Bentley talks about his paper PLF orderase
https://plflib.org/reorderase.htm
swap and pop behaviour
move and pop based on static and inplace vector
benchmarked it and got really fast single erasure, also fast for ranged
erasure
anyone interested in collaborating on this paper no throw movable and
nothrow copyable can just move/copy the back; great for deque and vectors
(order matters)
what if order doesn't matter? Not necessary e.g. simd, 16 elements would
just move from the back and preserve contagiousness and not suffer cost of
copying everything back
There's been a previous SG14 proposal for `unstable_remove` and
`unstable_remove_if`.
https://github.com/Quuxplusone/SG14#efficient-algorithms
asking for helpers on this paper.
When you `std::unstable_erase(myDeque, 42)`, should the implementation
swap-and-pop-front, or swap-and-pop-back? Depends on the surrounding
workload.? does back by default
6 going forward
1 not forward
>
>
> Finance topics from July 14, 2021.
>
> https://lists.isocpp.org/sg14/2021/06/0636.php
>
> https://lists.isocpp.org/sg14/2021/07/0642.php
>
> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
>
> Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
>
> https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
>
> Freestanding?
>
> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
>
> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>
> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>
> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
> Holmes, John McFarlane
>
> - Financial/Trading chairs: Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson, Patrice Roy
>
> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>
> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>
> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>
> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>
> -
>
> 3. Any other business
> Reflector
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards committee
> paper mailings:
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>
> Code and proposal Staging area
> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> 4. Review
>
> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> working draft]
>
> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>
> 5. Closing process
>
> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>
> 5.2 Future meeting
>
>
> *Mar 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> *Apr 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * May 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * June 14, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * July 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 9, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Oct 1: CPPCON
> * Oct 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> *Nov 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Kona F2F Cancelled
> * Dec 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
>
wrote:
> Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly This meeting is focused on Finance/Low
> Latency though we can continue with the Games paper that
> was started in January, depending on what other papers or topics are of
> interest.
>
> I am also looking for a finance Subgroup chair. Thank you.
>
> Hi,
>
> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>
> Topic: SG14 monthly
> Time: 2nd Wednesdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
> Every month on the Second Wed,
>
> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> https://iso.zoom.us/j/93151864365?pwd=aDhOcDNWd2NWdTJuT1loeXpKbTcydz09
> Password: 789626
>
> Or iPhone one-tap :
> US: +12532158782,,93151864365# or +13017158592,,93151864365#
> Or Telephone:
> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
> US: +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1
> 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833
> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> Meeting ID: 931 5186 4365
> Password: 789626
> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abRrVivZoD
>
> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93151864365
>
> Agenda:
>
> 1. Opening and introduction
>
> ISO Code of Conduct
> <
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink?func=ll&objId=20882226&objAction=Open&nexturl=%2Flivelink%2Flivelink%3Ffunc%3Dll%26objId%3D20158641%26objAction%3Dbrowse%26viewType%3D1
> *>*
>
> ISO patent policy.
>
> https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2
>
> IEC Code of Conduct:
>
> https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-work
>
> WG21 Code of Conduct:
>
>
> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
>
> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>
> Guy Davidson, John McFarlane, Patrice Roy
>
Arhtur O'Dwyer, Jake Fevold, Matthew Butler, Rene Morell, Ronen Friedman,
Michael Wong, Andrew Drakeford
Jens Maurer, Brett Searles, Matthew Bentley
> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>
> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>
> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>
> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>
> 2.1 General logistics
>
> Varna F2F
> C++23 and C++26 status
> cppcon sg14? maybe
>
> Future meeting plans
>
> *Mar 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> *Apr 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * May 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * June 14, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * July 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 9, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Oct 1: CPPCON
> * Oct 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> *Nov 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Kona F2F (Cancelled)
> * Dec 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
>
> 2.2 Paper reviews
> Discussion on Embedded:
> Review latest mailings:
> P2532 Removing exception_ptr from the receivers concept
> Based on the last meeting and the discussions here.
> P2544 C++ Exceptions are becoming more and more problematic
> We might want to chime in here.
> /Paul
> P. S. P2327 de-deprecating volatile received a "consensus" straw poll.
>
>
> Discussion on Low Latency/Finance topics
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p1839r4.pdf
>
> Patrice's paper on games.
>
> Arthur O has 2 papers for flatmap and flatset is going to R1
omnibus paper, first 6 sections went to LWG directly
https://quuxplusone.github.io/draft/d2767-flat-omnibus.html
>
>
>
>
> Discussion about Games topics:
>
> P2388R1 - Minimum Contract Support: either Ignore or Check_and_abort
> <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2388r1.html>
>
> Patrice's WIP on Games issues.
>
No content in this paper, just a feasibility study as to which feature we
want to pursue. This will break into many smaller actual papers
This paper is attached to this thread.
EASTL to address allocation alignment issues of original STL
today, dont rewrite vector and change semantics,
Need flatmap/set/hive/ring buffer
anything that allocates without explicit action is frowned upon, because it
affects framework, more about latency, PS and PC sorting algorithms, random
number algo varies and lacks determinism
allocation determinism is how long, and is latency
random number determinism is same number from same seed;RNG engines are
supposed to be deterministic in the standard.
(RNG determinism is mentioned in p1932.)
Distributions not so much.
requirements of games dev
speaking of "third-party STLs": There's a guy spending this summer to add
P1144 trivial relocation to HPX Stellar!
Latency rather than predictability
Performance = how long it takes to get a set amount of work done (in
practice)
Latency = the variability in terms of how long it takes to get the work done
In my view
P0406 Intrusive Containers link:
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/p0406r1.html
RF:Ceph (my project, in the Storage realm) uses intrusive containers
extensively
a multi-index container based on intrusive c is just being added to my part
of the code
AO: an (intrusive or std) list is a sequence container, whereas hive (as
currently proposed) is not — there's no way to insert into an arbitrary
position in a hive, like you can into a list.
My variant of hive now supports emplace_back and emplace_front, because
they're always cheap; but you physically can't support emplace(pos, args...)
Matthew Bentley talks about his paper PLF orderase
https://plflib.org/reorderase.htm
swap and pop behaviour
move and pop based on static and inplace vector
benchmarked it and got really fast single erasure, also fast for ranged
erasure
anyone interested in collaborating on this paper no throw movable and
nothrow copyable can just move/copy the back; great for deque and vectors
(order matters)
what if order doesn't matter? Not necessary e.g. simd, 16 elements would
just move from the back and preserve contagiousness and not suffer cost of
copying everything back
There's been a previous SG14 proposal for `unstable_remove` and
`unstable_remove_if`.
https://github.com/Quuxplusone/SG14#efficient-algorithms
asking for helpers on this paper.
When you `std::unstable_erase(myDeque, 42)`, should the implementation
swap-and-pop-front, or swap-and-pop-back? Depends on the surrounding
workload.? does back by default
6 going forward
1 not forward
>
>
> Finance topics from July 14, 2021.
>
> https://lists.isocpp.org/sg14/2021/06/0636.php
>
> https://lists.isocpp.org/sg14/2021/07/0642.php
>
> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
>
> Deterministic Exception for Embedded by James Renwick
>
> https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
>
> Freestanding?
>
> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
>
> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>
> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>
> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
> Holmes, John McFarlane
>
> - Financial/Trading chairs: Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson, Patrice Roy
>
> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>
> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>
> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>
> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>
> -
>
> 3. Any other business
> Reflector
> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards committee
> paper mailings:
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>
> Code and proposal Staging area
> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> 4. Review
>
> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> working draft]
>
> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>
> 5. Closing process
>
> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>
> 5.2 Future meeting
>
>
> *Mar 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> *Apr 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * May 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * June 14, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled
> * July 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> * Aug 9, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
> * Sep 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Embedded
> * Oct 1: CPPCON
> * Oct 10, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Finance
> *Nov 8, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Kona F2F Cancelled
> * Dec 12, 2023 02:00 PM ET: Games
>
Received on 2023-07-12 20:06:35