Thanks everyone, and special thanks to Ben. It's (almost) like being there!
:)

Le mer. 12 août 2020 à 15:35, Michael Wong via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
a écrit :

> Thank you all, especially to Staffen for chairing and Ben for taking
> notes. So far our experiment of having each domain chair run meetings the
> past 3 months have been working out very well, having done Games, Embedded,
> and Finance. Thank you all.
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 3:25 PM Hubert Tong via SG14 <
> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 2:58 PM Ben Craig via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Minutes for today’s meeting…
>>>
>> Thanks Ben.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ben Craig: Minutes
>>>
>>> Staffan Tjernstrom: Chair
>>>
>>> Michael Wong
>>>
>>> Arthur O'Dwyer
>>>
>>> Andrew Lumsdaine
>>>
>>> Basit Ayantunde
>>>
>>> Billy Baker
>>>
>>> connor horman
>>>
>>> Derek Haines
>>>
>>> Henry Miller
>>>
>>> Inbal Levi
>>>
>>> Maxime Laine
>>>
>>> Muklek Bokth Choudhury
>>>
>>> Robert Douglas
>>>
>>> Ronen Friedman
>>>
>>> Hubert Tong
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wong: Inverted meetings: maybe once every three or four months while
>>> coronavirus is going. CppCon now fully online. Kona meeting is in
>>> Jeopardy. Bulgaria, is the next most likely F2F.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ben: Pitch I've heard is that 6 months after sports start is when we'll
>>> have a new F2F
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Inbal: Virtual plenary is in the works
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: All we know is that we don't know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wong: Affinity was reviewed in SG1, good to move forward into LEWG. Low
>>> level one needs more discussion. Now the paper is talking more about
>>> interference patterns. Adjacency locality property work was discussed in
>>> an inverted meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: I see us doing what needs to be done to get executors done,
>>> maybe these will follow along.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Inbal: Technical difficulties with ring buffer meeting yesterday.
>>> Gathering the various inputs for ring buffer. May want to move some ring
>>> buffer things from ring buffer paper to P1958 and P0260. Need use cases.
>>> Jens suggested that this be a ring span.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Maxime Lainé to Everyone: 01:22 PM
>>>
>>> sure, but I can't see any more use cases as those already there sadly..
>>> (perhaps something driver related for networking but seems a bit stretched
>>> out)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Inbal Levi to Everyone: 01:25 PM
>>>
>>> Jens have suggested something along the lines of ring_span, so that's
>>> one direction. But we need to figure out if Guy's popping-strategy (from
>>> P0059) is something that is worth importing to P1958
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: LEWGI wasn't thrilled with P1958 interface, but didn't hate it
>>> either. LEWGI wanted to see how things differed with ring buffer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: P0593 implicit object creation. Adopted in the core language
>>> as a DR. start_lifetime_as isn't in the library yet. Very confident that
>>> it will be in C++23.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: P0593 is important to finance because of pipeline applications,
>>> similar to niall's load / unload objects out of memory ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hubert: std::launder won't help with the serialization things.
>>>
>> I think this needs:
>> "in strict terms without ensuring that the lifetime of an appropriate
>> object has started".
>>
>>
>>> start_lifetime_as only lets you claim that there is an object, previous
>>> references need to go through std::launder.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: Probably wait to talk about member layout control until Rene is
>>> able to make it on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wong: September is probably the right time to reconnect with Renwick to
>>> get forward progress on the paper and implementation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Inbal: Trying to summarize decisions that are made in the low cost
>>> exception space for a cppcon talk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ben: Paper in the works to discuss error handling tradeoffs. Will send
>>> it to Wong and Inbal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: Big finance concern is just getting C++20 implemented and
>>> seeing the impact, like with jthread and the sync primitives. Seeing real
>>> at-scale impact with concepts and modules.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wong: How well does the networking proposal work for finance? Maybe
>>> there's an RPC proposal?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: Anything that helps low level timing stability or development
>>> throughput is of interest. In finance, lots of people have the same idea
>>> at about the same time, but only the first 50% of people or so will make
>>> money on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wong: How do contracts feel in your space?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: Vital, just not that everyone has realized that what they are
>>> doing is contracts work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wong: Bloomberg is largely doing it for verification.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Robert Douglas to Everyone: 01:46 PM
>>>
>>> Are there any papers in flight, that anyone is aware of, for attributes
>>> for hot/cold, a-la likely/unlikely?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert Douglas: gnu has hot / cold as well. Has anyone seen a paper
>>> along those lines?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: likely / unlikely don't strictly do that, it does help. Not
>>> for data though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: finance ends up living in a weird world where the most common
>>> things need to be marked "unlikely" for performance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Me to Everyone: 01:50 PM
>>>
>>> Timur Doumler is also trying to drag an assume attribute back from
>>> contracts
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From connor horman to Everyone: 01:52 PM
>>>
>>> I'd be interested in seeing that as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert Douglas: I usually see this for error handling functions that are
>>> marked both as unlikely and cold.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wong: Could use a paper exploring this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Inbal Levi to Everyone: 01:53 PM
>>>
>>> Yes. But to my humble understanding, the support is vague.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Maxime Lainé to Everyone: 01:53 PM
>>>
>>> hot/cold pragmas/markers seems a bit out of language, more of a compiler
>>> feature, but I'm open for discussion as well
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From Inbal Levi to Everyone: 01:53 PM
>>>
>>> P1774R3
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Staffan: Would like to have an offline discussion talking about hot /
>>> cold.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actions:
>>>
>>> * Wong to talk with Renwick
>>>
>>> * Staffan + Robert to talk about object layout
>>>
>>> * Revisit object layout space when Rene is on the call
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* SG14 <sg14-bounces_at_[hidden]> *On Behalf Of *Matthew
>>> Butler via SG14
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2020 10:14 AM
>>> *To:* Low Latency:Game Dev/Financial/Trading/Simulation/Embedded
>>> Devices <sg14_at_[hidden]>
>>> *Cc:* Matthew Butler <mbutler_at_[hidden]>
>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [SG14] SG14 Aug 12 meeting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Me as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 9:10 AM René Ferdinand Rivera Morell via SG14 <
>>> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Same for me.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 11:07 AM Guy Cpp via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Apologies: I won't be able to attend this month's meeting. Have a great
>>> time!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> G
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 17:06, Tjernstrom, Staffan via SG14 <
>>> sg14_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly
>>>
>>> This meeting is Finance focused and is chaired by Staffan Tjernström.
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
>>>
>>> Topic: SG14 monthly Apr 2020-Oct 2020
>>>
>>> Time: Jun 11, 2020 02:00 AM Eastern Time (US and Canada) 6 UTC
>>> Jun 11, 2020 02:00 AM 6UTC
>>> Jul 8, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
>>> Aug 12, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
>>> Sep 9, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
>>> Oct 7, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
>>>
>>> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
>>>
>>> Password: 013549
>>>
>>> Or iPhone one-tap :
>>> US: +13462487799,,819108882# or +14086380968,,819108882#
>>> Or Telephone:
>>> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
>>> location):
>>> US: +1 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1
>>> 669 900 6833 or +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799
>>> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
>>> Meeting ID: 819 108 882
>>> Password: 013549
>>> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abhaIjFKLZ
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/iso.zoom.us/u/abhaIjFKLZ__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacLmXh7zK$>
>>>
>>> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
>>> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/819108882
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/iso.zoom.us/skype/819108882__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacEm5_qyh$>
>>>
>>> Agenda:
>>>
>>> 1. Opening and introductions
>>>
>>> 1.1 Roll call of participants
>>>
>>> 1.2 Adopt agenda
>>>
>>> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
>>> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
>>>
>>> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
>>>
>>> 2. Main issues (125 min)
>>>
>>> 2.1 General logistics
>>>
>>> Inverted meeting frequency?
>>>
>>> CPPCON logistics
>>> CPPCON Embedded Track: Ben Saks
>>> future C++ Standard meetings:
>>>
>>> 2.2 Paper reviews
>>>
>>> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
>>>
>>> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit*gid=0__;Iw!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacAwLxEYi$>
>>>
>>> These are more status updates than full-blown reviews this time around.
>>>
>>> Affinity https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue+P1436
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue*P1436__;Kw!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacEOd4ruZ$>
>>>
>>> System topology discovery
>>> https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue+P1795
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue*P1795__;Kw!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacG9gxIRs$>
>>>
>>> Ring Buffer https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue+P0059
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue*P0059__;Kw!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacAETJvyX$>
>>>
>>> Object Creation
>>> https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue+P0593
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue*P0593__;Kw!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacM7wUnzd$>
>>>
>>> Member layout control
>>> https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue+P1605
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues?q=is:issue*P1605__;Kw!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacFPftyFn$>
>>>
>>> Discuss future direction of detreministic C++ exception group :
>>>
>>> Low-cost Deterministic C++ Exceptions for Embedded Systems
>>> <
>>>
>>> https://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/files/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/files/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacHGnA89n$>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Low-cost
>>> Deterministic C++ Exceptions for Embedded Systems James Renwick James
>>> Renwick et al.
>>>
>>> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
>>>
>>> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
>>>
>>> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
>>> Holmes, John McFarlane
>>>
>>> - Financial/Trading chairs: Staffan Tjernström, Carl Cooke, Neal
>>> Horlock,
>>> Mateusz Pusz, Clay Trychta,
>>> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson
>>> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
>>>
>>> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
>>>
>>> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
>>>
>>> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
>>> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacH7nNQQe$>
>>>
>>> - 2020-11: (New York, tentative) Cancelled.
>>> - 2021-02-22 to 27: Kona, HI, USA
>>>
>>> 3. Any other business
>>> Reflector
>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacAJ8MqKp$>
>>> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards
>>> committee
>>> paper mailings:
>>> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacK1x_akR$>
>>> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacGaC9T9_$>
>>>
>>> Code and proposal Staging area
>>> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14__;!!FbZ0ZwI3Qg!-Cx7ecFH_AJfg5_2VUHA4q_4m6HrgQCiCUI56OFLF7QJGeMDjmTacJ4nXJap$>
>>> 4. Review
>>>
>>> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
>>> working draft]
>>>
>>> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
>>>
>>> 5. Closing process
>>>
>>> 5.1 Establish next agenda
>>>
>>> 5.2 Future meeting
>>>
>>> Time: Sep 9, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) : Security:
>>> Mathew
>>> Butler
>>>
>>> Time: Oct 14, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada): Games: Rene
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind Rgds
>>>
>>> Staffan Tj.
>>>
>>> pp Michael Wong
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
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