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Subject: Re: SG14 Digest, Vol 19, Issue 8
From: Inbal Levi (sinbal2l_at_[hidden])
Date: 2020-07-21 14:23:20


Thanks a lot for notifying, Michael.
I've added Maximus (cool name indeed) to the loop. :)

Best regards,
Inbal Levi

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 16:01, <sg14-request_at_[hidden]> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: SG14 Jul 8 meeting (Michael Wong)
> 2. Re: SG14 Jul 8 meeting (Maximus Seniorem)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 17:44:14 -0400
> From: Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
> To: Sophia Poirier <spoirier_at_[hidden]>
> Cc: "Low Latency:Game Dev/Financial/Trading/Simulation/Embedded
> Devices" <sg14_at_[hidden]>, Guy Davidson <guy_at_[hidden]>
> Subject: Re: [SG14] SG14 Jul 8 meeting
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAAUWkG93oeaTX1_AbdsAUMyYEh_mK+r+agsum_r+8+Xqgeubuw_at_[hidden]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thank you, yes this was an unintentional mischaracterization and I will
> make sure the final notes reflect your thoughts here. It is always good to
> get a balanced view and find a way to move forward. Thank you for the
> correction and sorry again.
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:38 PM Sophia Poirier <spoirier_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>
> > Hello and just chiming in to correct some mischaracterization here (I
> > presume unintentionally) of the status of audio, from the perspective of
> > myself as the representative from Apple on the domain. Apple is
> definitely
> > not against an audio library in the STL, however we do think the approach
> > of the current proposal has enough problems to leave it serving no
> > developer audience effectively (and not just on our platforms). Our
> paper
> > detailing these critiques and suggestions for design is:
> > http://wg21.link/P1746
> >
> > The subsequent audio use cases paper that Michael references is
> > http://wg21.link/P2054 and we were supposed to do a follow up survey
> > based on it, however that has indeed stalled due to some disagreement
> > between authors as to whether we are ready for that or need to expand the
> > use cases further.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Sophia
> >
> >
> > On Jul 8, 2020, at 2:10 PM, Michael Wong via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Audio:
> > Apple don't want it, they are big stakeholder, audio api is good for
> > windows and linux,but is a security issue for IOS, breaks model of how
> they
> > handle audio sessions, Timur, Frank B, Sophia P are working on a paper
> > authors are busy and don't know how to make progress
> > maybe layers such that Apple can opt in at higher layer, like mixing
> > channels
> >
> > Linear Algebra:
> > C++ LA paper aiming for a slot for LEWG, BLAS is done
> > updating it for concepts and require clauses, should be a shorter paper.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 2:49 PM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Ring buffer minutes
> >> Inbal working on non-atomic version of the ring buffer, but currently
> >> busy with executors
> >> trying to think about customization points
> >> may be ready by next meeting
> >>
> >> Matthew is helping, Steffan TJ interested based on inhouse
> >> implementations in finance
> >> Paul B also can help, do you have any github site? Yes
> >> its in SG14 github with version of SG14 paper and repo; ay be out of
> date
> >> different people want different things
> >> Guy: perhaps a separate telecon for interested parties
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:31 AM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Updated Agenda attached.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:13 PM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly
> >>>>
> >>>> This meeting is Embedded focused and is chaired by Ben Craig.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Topic: SG14 monthly Apr 2020-Oct 2020
> >>>>
> >>>> Time: Jun 11, 2020 02:00 AM Eastern Time (US and Canada) 6 UTC
> >>>> Jun 11, 2020 02:00 AM 6UTC
> >>>> Jul 8, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>>> Aug 12, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>>> Sep 9, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>>> Oct 7, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>>>
> >>>> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> >>>> https://iso.zoom.us/j/819108882?pwd=L0pPZm5QRWlTYXdJditvU1JLdjFYUT09
> >>>> Password: 013549
> >>>>
> >>>> Or iPhone one-tap :
> >>>> US: +13462487799,,819108882# or +14086380968,,819108882#
> >>>> Or Telephone:
> >>>> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
> >>>> location):
> >>>> US: +1 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or
> +1
> >>>> 669 900 6833 or +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799
> >>>> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> >>>> Meeting ID: 819 108 882
> >>>> Password: 013549
> >>>> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abhaIjFKLZ
> >>>>
> >>>> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> >>>> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/819108882
> >>>>
> >>>> Agenda:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Opening and introductions
> >>>>
> >>> 1.2 Meeting Guidelines
> >>> The ISO Code of conduct:
> >>>
> https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf
> >>> The IEC Code of Conduct:
> >>>
> https://basecamp.iec.ch/download/iec-code-of-conduct-for-delegates-and-experts/
> >>> The WG21 Practices and Procedures and Code of Conduct:
> >>>
> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 1.1 Roll call of participants
> >>>>
> >>>> 1.2 Adopt agenda
> >>>>
> >>>> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
> >>>> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
> >>>>
> >>>> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. Main issues (125 min)
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.1 General logistics
> >>>>
> >>>> Inverted meeting frequency?
> >>>>
> >>>> CPPCON logistics
> >>>> CPPCON SG14 plans
> >>>> CPPCON Embedded Track: Ben Saks
> >>>> future C++ Standard meetings:
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.2 Paper reviews
> >>>> Review of
> >>>> Freestanding (previously p0829)
> >>>> Freestanding Library: Easy Utilities Ben Craig
> https://wg21.link/P1642
> >>>> Freestanding Library: Rewording Status Quo Ben Craig
> >>>> https://wg21.link/P1641
> >>>> Freestanding Language Ben Craig https://wg21.link/P1105
> >>>> Fixed point (and others p0037 )
> >>>> CNL (fixed point, elastic numbers et. al) John McFarlane
> >>>> https://wg21.link/P0037
> >>>> <https://github.com/johnmcfarlane/cnl#further-reading>
> >>>> https://github.com/johnmcfarlane/cnl#further-readin
> >>>> <https://github.com/johnmcfarlane/cnl#further-reading>g
> >>>> ring_buffer ( P0059 does this need a new champion? )
> >>>> Ring Buffer Guy, Dan Raviv, Matthew Butler, Inbal Levi
> >>>> http://wg21.link/p0059
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
> >>>>
> >>>> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Discuss future direction of detreministic C++ exception group :
> >>>>
> >>>> Low-cost Deterministic C++ Exceptions for Embedded Systems
> >>>> <
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/files/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Low-cost
> >>>> Deterministic C++ Exceptions for Embedded Systems James Renwick James
> >>>> Renwick et al.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
> >>>>
> >>>> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and
> Odin
> >>>> Holmes, John McFarlane
> >>>> <
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://wiki.edg.com/bin/edit/Wg21belfast/McFarlane?topicparent=Wg21belfast.SG14CPPCON2019-09-17;nowysiwyg=1
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Financial/Trading chairs: Stephan TJ, Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> >>>> Mateusz Pusz, Clay Trychta,
> >>>> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson
> >>>> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> >>>> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
> >>>>
> >>>> - 2020-11: (New York, tentative) Cancelled.
> >>>> - 2021-02-22 to 27: Kona, HI, USA
> >>>>
> >>>> 3. Any other business
> >>>> Reflector
> >>>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> >>>> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards
> >>>> committee
> >>>> paper mailings:
> >>>> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> >>>> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
> >>>>
> >>>> Code and proposal Staging area
> >>>> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> >>>> 4. Review
> >>>>
> >>>> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> >>>> working draft]
> >>>>
> >>>> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
> >>>>
> >>>> 5. Closing process
> >>>>
> >>>> 5.1 Establish next agenda
> >>>>
> >>>> 5.2 Future meeting
> >>>>
> >>>> Time: Jul 8, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) : Embedded:
> Ben
> >>>> Craig
> >>>>
> >>>> Time: Aug 12, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) : Fiinance:
> >>>> Stephan TJ
> >>>>
> >>>> Time: Sep 9, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) : Security:
> >>>> Mathew
> >>>> Butler
> >>>>
> >>>> Time: Oct 14, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada): Games: Rene
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> > SG14 mailing list
> > SG14_at_[hidden]
> > https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> HTML attachment scrubbed and removed
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:32:59 +0200
> From: Maximus Seniorem <maxlaine288_at_[hidden]>
> To: sg14_at_[hidden]
> Subject: Re: [SG14] SG14 Jul 8 meeting
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAJJBvSoB8g9+4v+nMLFte6K58kCKRh57tbqqu+EhrvkmCn__qw_at_[hidden]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi
>
> I know I'm not quite active here, but I would be interested in helping with
> the ring buffer.
>
> I'm hacking this mailing list a bit, but if there's a future telecon
> regarding that matter, I'd be interested getting onboarded.
>
> Regards,
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 20:49 Michael Wong via SG14 <sg14_at_[hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ring buffer minutes
> > Inbal working on non-atomic version of the ring buffer, but currently
> busy
> > with executors
> > trying to think about customization points
> > may be ready by next meeting
> >
> > Matthew is helping, Steffan TJ interested based on inhouse
> implementations
> > in finance
> > Paul B also can help, do you have any github site? Yes
> > its in SG14 github with version of SG14 paper and repo; ay be out of date
> > different people want different things
> > Guy: perhaps a separate telecon for interested parties
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:31 AM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Updated Agenda attached.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:13 PM Michael Wong <fraggamuffin_at_[hidden]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Topic: SG14 Low Latency Monthly
> >>>
> >>> This meeting is Embedded focused and is chaired by Ben Craig.
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Michael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
> >>>
> >>> Topic: SG14 monthly Apr 2020-Oct 2020
> >>>
> >>> Time: Jun 11, 2020 02:00 AM Eastern Time (US and Canada) 6 UTC
> >>> Jun 11, 2020 02:00 AM 6UTC
> >>> Jul 8, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>> Aug 12, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>> Sep 9, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>> Oct 7, 2020 02:00 PM 18 UTC
> >>>
> >>> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:
> >>> https://iso.zoom.us/j/819108882?pwd=L0pPZm5QRWlTYXdJditvU1JLdjFYUT09
> >>> Password: 013549
> >>>
> >>> Or iPhone one-tap :
> >>> US: +13462487799,,819108882# or +14086380968,,819108882#
> >>> Or Telephone:
> >>> Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
> >>> location):
> >>> US: +1 346 248 7799 or +1 408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1
> >>> 669 900 6833 or +1 253 215 8782 or +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799
> >>> or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free)
> >>> Meeting ID: 819 108 882
> >>> Password: 013549
> >>> International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/abhaIjFKLZ
> >>>
> >>> Or Skype for Business (Lync):
> >>> https://iso.zoom.us/skype/819108882
> >>>
> >>> Agenda:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Opening and introductions
> >>>
> >> 1.2 Meeting Guidelines
> >> The ISO Code of conduct:
> >>
> https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf
> >> The IEC Code of Conduct:
> >>
> https://basecamp.iec.ch/download/iec-code-of-conduct-for-delegates-and-experts/
> >> The WG21 Practices and Procedures and Code of Conduct:
> >>
> https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures
> >>
> >>> 1.1 Roll call of participants
> >>>
> >>> 1.2 Adopt agenda
> >>>
> >>> 1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing
> >>> previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org
> >>>
> >>> 1.4 Action items from previous meetings
> >>>
> >>> 2. Main issues (125 min)
> >>>
> >>> 2.1 General logistics
> >>>
> >>> Inverted meeting frequency?
> >>>
> >>> CPPCON logistics
> >>> CPPCON SG14 plans
> >>> CPPCON Embedded Track: Ben Saks
> >>> future C++ Standard meetings:
> >>>
> >>> 2.2 Paper reviews
> >>> Review of
> >>> Freestanding (previously p0829)
> >>> Freestanding Library: Easy Utilities Ben Craig https://wg21.link/P1642
> >>> Freestanding Library: Rewording Status Quo Ben Craig
> >>> https://wg21.link/P1641
> >>> Freestanding Language Ben Craig https://wg21.link/P1105
> >>> Fixed point (and others p0037 )
> >>> CNL (fixed point, elastic numbers et. al) John McFarlane
> >>> https://wg21.link/P0037
> >>> <https://github.com/johnmcfarlane/cnl#further-reading>
> >>> https://github.com/johnmcfarlane/cnl#further-readin
> >>> <https://github.com/johnmcfarlane/cnl#further-reading>g
> >>> ring_buffer ( P0059 does this need a new champion? )
> >>> Ring Buffer Guy, Dan Raviv, Matthew Butler, Inbal Levi
> >>> http://wg21.link/p0059
> >>>
> >>> 2.2.1 any other proposal for reviews?
> >>>
> >>> SG14/SG19 features/issues/defects:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JnUJBO72QVURttkKr7gn0_WjP--P0vAne8JBfzbRiy0/edit#gid=0
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Discuss future direction of detreministic C++ exception group :
> >>>
> >>> Low-cost Deterministic C++ Exceptions for Embedded Systems
> >>> <
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/files/78829292/low_cost_deterministic_C_exceptions_for_embedded_systems.pdf
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Low-cost
> >>> Deterministic C++ Exceptions for Embedded Systems James Renwick James
> >>> Renwick et al.
> >>>
> >>> 2.3 Domain-specific discussions
> >>>
> >>> 2.3.1 SIG chairs
> >>>
> >>> - Embedded Programming chairs: Ben Craig, Wouter van Ooijen and Odin
> >>> Holmes, John McFarlane
> >>> <
> >>>
> >>>
> http://wiki.edg.com/bin/edit/Wg21belfast/McFarlane?topicparent=Wg21belfast.SG14CPPCON2019-09-17;nowysiwyg=1
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Financial/Trading chairs: Stephan TJ, Carl Cooke, Neal Horlock,
> >>> Mateusz Pusz, Clay Trychta,
> >>> - Games chairs: Rene Riviera, Guy Davidson and Paul Hampson
> >>> - Linear Algebra chairs: Bob Steagall, Mark Hoemmen, Guy Davidson
> >>>
> >>> 2.4 Other Papers and proposals
> >>>
> >>> 2.5 Future F2F meetings:
> >>>
> >>> 2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:
> >>> https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetings
> >>>
> >>> - 2020-11: (New York, tentative) Cancelled.
> >>> - 2021-02-22 to 27: Kona, HI, USA
> >>>
> >>> 3. Any other business
> >>> Reflector
> >>> https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> >>> As well as look through papers marked "SG14" in recent standards
> >>> committee
> >>> paper mailings:
> >>> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/
> >>> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/
> >>>
> >>> Code and proposal Staging area
> >>> https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14
> >>> 4. Review
> >>>
> >>> 4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG's
> >>> working draft]
> >>>
> >>> 4.2 Review action items (5 min)
> >>>
> >>> 5. Closing process
> >>>
> >>> 5.1 Establish next agenda
> >>>
> >>> 5.2 Future meeting
> >>>
> >>> Time: Jul 8, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) : Embedded: Ben
> >>> Craig
> >>>
> >>> Time: Aug 12, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) : Fiinance:
> >>> Stephan TJ
> >>>
> >>> Time: Sep 9, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) : Security:
> >>> Mathew
> >>> Butler
> >>>
> >>> Time: Oct 14, 2020 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada): Games: Rene
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> > SG14 mailing list
> > SG14_at_[hidden]
> > https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg14
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of SG14 Digest, Vol 19, Issue 8
> ***********************************
>



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