On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 1:03 PM Victor Eijkhout via SG20 <sg20@lists.isocpp.org> wrote:
On , 2022Jan26, at 11:02, JC van Winkel <jcvw@google.com> wrote:

Hi,

Note that http://wg21.link/p1389 was written to give advice about what patterns to use and what to avoid. 

Understood. And I was saying that the suggested patterns is unimplementable.

FWIW, I teach
- pass-by-value
- problems: performance of all those copies; how to write an out-parameter?
- C solution: pointers (a pointer holds a memory address)
- pass-by-pointer
- C++ enhancement: references (***)
- pass-by-reference
- problem: accidental modification of the caller's thing
- solution: `const`
- pass-by-const-reference
- guideline: pass large objects by const&, small cheap ones by value
- guideline: pass out-parameters by pointer

This happens over the course of about 10–20 slides. Right at the (***) mark, I do have sample code of the form
    int& r = i;
    r = 2;  // modifies i
of the form disparaged by P1389. However, it's also surrounded by the larger context where we're talking about function parameters, exactly as prescribed by P1389. Also, that slide is presented in that form specifically because we want to compare references' syntax against pointers' syntax from 2–3 slides earlier:
    int *p = &i;
    *p = 2;  // modifies i
I sympathize with Victor's point that teaching references does require one slide that presents references outside of parameter lists. But generally I agree with P1389's guidance that you really don't want to emphasize the use of references outside of function parameter lists (and, eventually, getter return types). The trick is to get past that one slide really quickly and emphasize the parameter-list usage. Don't spend multiple slides on local variables of reference type; don't do exercises where you bind references to other references and stuff like that; just say what they are and then get on with using them as they're intended to be used. Easy peasy.

–Arthur