# 2019-06-14 SG20 minutes

## Roll call

* JC van Winkel (chair, jcvw)
* Christopher Di Bella (scribe, cjdb)
* Kostas Kyrmimis (kostas)
* Florian Sattler (florian)
* Michael Adams (micheal)
* Nevin Liber (nevin)

## Agenda

* Opening and introductions
* Find a second scribe (first scribe is Chris Di Bella)
* Roll call of participants
* Adopt agenda
* Adopt last meeting's minutes
* C++ Standards Foundation poll - partial results from aggregation
* Proposals in the works
	* [P1389](http://wg21.link/p1389) - Standing Document for SG20: Guidelines for Teaching C++ to Beginners
	* Any other business
* Closing process
* Future meetings
* Adjourn

## Last meeting's minutes

No comments.

## C++ Standards Foundation survey

jcvw:
	* problem with the poll and results: the raw data is only available to members of the ISO C++ Foundation
	* joining is $1'000
	* people cannot receive this data unless they're members
	* I did one aggregation over the columns on "how much experience do you HAVE NOW" vs "how much
	  experience did you have when you learnt c++?"
	* no real correlation
	* count, How many years of programming experience do you have in C++ specifically?,How many years
	  of programming experience do you have overall (all languages)?,"When you first learned C++, how
	  much programming experience did you already have?"
	* large group said >20, >20, beginner programmer
	[minutes notes: see highly aggregated data at the bottom]
	* majority of programmers learnt C++ as a beginner
	* this was unexpected
	* does seem that beginning programmers are the primary learning C++
	* need to stamp out first learning C, then learning C++ as fast as we can

## Proposals in the works

### P1389 Standing Document for SG20: Guidelines for Teaching C++ to Beginners

cjdb:
	* defect, new Proposals
jcvw:
	* please discuss defect

### P1700 Target-audience tables

jcvw:
	* helps to work out if experts only will use something, and will everyone benefit?
	* Gor was really able to capture who uses what feature in coroutines

## Other business

michael:
	* I'd like to help, but it's difficult to attend ISO meetings


## Highly aggregated data

23 >20 years,>20 years,I was an expert programmer,
29 10-20 years,>20 years,I was an advanced programmer,
30 1-2 years,6-10 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
31 6-10 years,6-10 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
39 >20 years,>20 years,I was an advanced programmer,
44 1-2 years,1-2 years,I was a beginning programmer,
56 1-2 years,3-5 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
60 1-2 years,3-5 years,I was a beginning programmer,
61 10-20 years,10-20 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
82 10-20 years,>20 years,I was a beginning programmer,
86 3-5 years,6-10 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
90 10-20 years,>20 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
91 6-10 years,10-20 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
97 6-10 years,10-20 years,I was a beginning programmer,
125  >20 years,>20 years,I was an intermediate programmer,
128 3-5 years,6-10 years,I was a beginning programmer,
144 >20 years,>20 years,I was a beginning programmer,
183 3-5 years,3-5 years,I was a beginning programmer,
217 6-10 years,6-10 years,I was a beginning programmer,
309 10-20 years,10-20 years,I was a beginning programmer,