Hi all, there will be an SG19 meeting 2 PM ET focused on Stats and then Graph Thank you.
JTC1/SC22/WG21 - Papers 2025
<https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2025/>). Feedback
welcome.P1708 Basic Statistics
P2681 More Basic Statistics
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2023/p2681r1.pdf - P3126R3 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2025/p3126r3.pdf>Graph Library: Overview Phil Ratzloff, Andrew Lumsdaine 2025-04-13 2025-04 P3126R2 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p3126r2.pdf>SG14 Low Latency,SG19 Machine Learning P3127R1 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2025/p3127r1.pdf>Graph Library: Background and Terminology Phil Ratzloff, Andrew Lumsdaine 2025-04-13 2025-04 P3127R0 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p3127r0.pdf>SG14 Low Latency,SG19 Machine Learning P3128R3 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2025/p3128r3.pdf>Graph Library: Algorithms Phil Ratzloff, Andrew Lumsdaine 2025-04-13 2025-04 P3128R2 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p3128r2.pdf>SG14 Low Latency,SG19 Machine Learning P3129R1 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2025/p3129r1.pdf>Graph Library: Views Phil Ratzloff, Andrew Lumsdaine 2025-04-13 2025-04 P3129R0 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p3129r0.pdf>SG14 Low Latency,SG19 Machine Learning P3130R3 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2025/p3130r3.pdf>Graph Library: Graph Container Interface Phil Ratzloff, Andrew Lumsdaine 2025-04-13 2025-04 P3130R2 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p3130r2.pdf>SG14 Low Latency,SG19 Machine Learning P3131R3 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2025/p3131r3.pdf>Graph Library: Graph Containers Phil Ratzloff, Andrew Lumsdaine 2025-04-13 2025-04 P3131R2 <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2024/p3131r2.pdf>SG14 Low Latency,SG19 Machine LearningMichael Wong is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.Topic: SG19 monthlyTime: 2nd Thursdays 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) Every month on the Second Thu,Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android:https://iso.zoom.us/j/93084591725?pwd=K3QxZjJlcnljaE13ZWU5cTlLNkx0Zz09 Password: 035530Or iPhone one-tap : US: +13017158592,,93084591725# or +13126266799,,93084591725#Or Telephone: Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location): US: +1 301 715 8592 or +1 312 626 6799 or +1 346 248 7799 or +1408 638 0968 or +1 646 876 9923 or +1 669 900 6833 or +1 253 215 8782 or 877 853 5247 (Toll Free) Meeting ID: 930 8459 1725 Password: 035530 International numbers available: https://iso.zoom.us/u/agewu4X97Or Skype for Business (Lync): https://iso.zoom.us/skype/93084591725Agenda:1. Opening and introductionsThe ISO Code of conduct:https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdfIEC Code of Conduct:https://www.iec.ch/basecamp/iec-code-conduct-technical-workISO patent policy.https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2122/3770791/Common_Policy.htm?nodeid=6344764&vernum=-2The WG21 Practices and Procedures and Code of Conduct:https://isocpp.org/std/standing-documents/sd-4-wg21-practices-and-procedures1.1 Roll call of participants1.2 Adopt agenda1.3 Approve minutes from previous meeting, and approve publishing previously approved minutes to ISOCPP.org1.4 Action items from previous meetings2. Main issues (125 min)2.1 General logistics* Jan 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled* Feb 13, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Hagenberg F2F; Cancelled* Mar 13, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* Apr 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Stats* May 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* June 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Sofia F2F, cancelled* July 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Stats* Aug 14, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* Sep 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON, cancelled* Oct 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Stats* Nov 13, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* Dec 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: StatsISO meeting statusfuture C++ Std meetings2.2 Paper reviewsFor graph, we have a new draft of P3337 Comparison paper that compares thelibrary in performance against boost::graph and NWGraph.If Andrew is able to attend, he should be able to review the changes he'smade to P3126 and P3127.P3495 from Oliver/Mark>From Phil: There are updates to the P3126 Overview and P3127 Background andTerminology papers for the Graph Library. They haven’t been published yet,but it would be helpful to get input on them before they’re published.Since the changes are a response to Oliver’s concerns, I think Oliver andAndrew would need to attend to make it useful to have a session for theGraph Library. Unless they want to do that, I think we can send draftversions to the reflector, unless there’s a better idea.Review BSI Graph feedback:As Oliver (Rosten) said "The basic premise is important, and it would befantastic to have support for graphs in the standard."The main items identified were:Oliver:- This paper is long and incomplete, it has lots of details which I thinkto be irrelevant, however things that are definitely relevant are missingfrom the paper - for example definition of graph - since people havedifferent ideas. We need to add a mathematical perspective to the paper.- The structure of the paper completely changed in the new revision, so nowit’s hard to understand what and why they have done- Another missing part is discussion of graph invariantsTom (Deakin): There’s a big missing part in “Prior art” part, GraphBLAS (https://graphblas.org) eminently.Some other things to add:1. The electrical circuit example needs more explanation, and I think thiswill highlight some deep issues around representing things which areseemingly trivially graphs, as graphs in practice. In what sense is abog-standard resistor directed? I assume the reason that the graph isdirected is because current has a sign and in an undirected graph itbecomes ambiguous which way the current is flowing (also you may wantcomponents like diodes). But the directed representation also has issues:"can current flow from 'Vdd' to 'n0'?" should be immediately answerablefrom the properties of Vdd and its edges. There are other ways to representan electrical circuit. One is as a directed graph but with incident edgesrecorded - but iiuc, this is excluded from the latest version of the paper.Alternatively, one could have a mathematical object, the name of which Iactually don't know: it looks like an undirected graph, but where eachpartial edge has additional, unique, end-point data, as well as the commonweight. Things like this are the reason why I think we need a broader groupto look at this proposal (i.e. beyond SG19) and if we possibly can weshould involve someone from the mathematics community. Otherwise there's areal danger we end up missing important insights.2. My comment about the structure of the paper changing was a reference toprevious comparisons with boost::graph. I'm sure these were in an earlierversion, or am I misremembering? Either way, it would be very helpful tohave a proper discussion of e.g. the move away from visitors.3. Re. the definition of a graph, there needs to be a proper discussionabout whether the paper's definition of graph is what some authors call amultigraph and whether it does/does not include loops. These things arementioned, in passing, when introducing algorithms, but terminology needsto be properly established.4. I think we're trying to do too much in one go in this paper. I think agreat first step would be to build on mdspan and try to standardize (or atleast understand) what might reasonably be called an unstructured span.This could be represented as a vector of vectors or as a vector with someauxiliary storage indicating where the partitions fall. The point is thatan unstructured span, with the right invariants, is an adjacency list. Ifwe can understand unstructured span and its desirable api, I think thiswill be incredibly valuable guidance for what a standardized graphcontainer might look like.5. IIUC, this paper excludes pure connectivity graphs. These are incrediblyhelpful and, if I've understood correctly that they are not supported,would be a major omission. Another good reason, imo, to start withunstructured span!6. I'm not convinced by the load api. We don't have a load api for vectoretc. Moreover, would it not be preferable to have appropriate constructors?2.2.1: ML topics2.2.1.1 Graph Proposal Phil Ratsloff et alLatest paper:Here’s a link to the paper (different than the previous paper reviewed).There are some additional updates I’m planning on making before the meeting.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OpH-xxRri7tJTtJJIZTYmSHkkrZJkdBwm9zJ7LqolfQ/edit?usp=sharingP1709R3:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kLHhbSTX7j0tPeTYECQFSNx3R35Mu3xO5_dyYdRy4dM/edit?usp=sharinghttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1QkfDzGyfNQKs86y053M0YHOLP6frzhTJqzg1Ug_vkkE/edit?usp=sharing<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html><https://docs.google.com/document/d/175wIm8o4BNGti0WLq8U6uZORegKVjmnpfc-_E8PoGS0/edit?ts=5fff27cd#heading=h.9ogkehmdmtel*>*Array copy semantics:array copy-semantics paper P1997 "Relaxing Restrictions on Arrays",https://wg21.link/p1997Stats feedback:P2376R0<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p2376r0.pdf>Commentson Simple Statistical Functions (p1708r4): Contracts, Exceptions andSpecial cases Johan Lundberg2.2.1.2 Reinforcement Learning Larry Lewis Jorge SilvaReinforcement Learning proposal:2.2.1.3 Differential Calculus:https://docs.google.com/document/d/175wIm8o4BNGti0WLq8U6uZORegKVjmnpfc-_E8PoGS0/edit?ts=5fff27cd#heading=h.9ogkehmdmtel2.2.1.4: Stats paperP2681R0<https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p2681r0.pdf> MoreStats Functions Richard Dosselmann, Michael WongCurrent githubhttps://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/475https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/979Stats review Richard Dosselman et alhttp://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2021/p1708r4.pdfFeedback from Johan Lundberg and Oleksandr Korvalhttps://isocpp.org/files/papers/D2376R0.pdfP1708R3: Math proposal for Machine Learning: 3rd reviewPXXXX: combinatorics: 1st Review*> std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p1708r2<http://std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p1708r2>**> above is the stats paper that was reviewed in Prague**> http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21prague/P1708R2SG19<http://wiki.edg.com/bin/view/Wg21prague/P1708R2SG19>**>**> Review Jolanta Polish feedback.**> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2020/p2119r0.html>*2.2.1.4: Matrix paper2.2.3 any other proposal for reviews?2.3 Other Papers and proposalsP1416R1: SG19 - Linear Algebra for Data Science and Machine Learninghttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1IKUNiUhBgRURW-UkspK7fAAyIhfXuMxjk7xKikK4Yp8/edit#heading=h.tj9hitg7dbtrP1415: Machine Learning Layered listhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1elNFdIXWoetbxjO1OKol_Wj8fyi4Z4hogfj5tLVSj64/edit#heading=h.tj9hitg7dbtr2.2.2 SG14 Linear Algebra progress:Different layers of proposalhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1poXfr7mUPovJC9ZQ5SDVM_1Nb6oYAXlK_d0ljdUAtSQ/edit2.5 Future F2F meetings:2.6 future C++ Standard meetings:https://isocpp.org/std/meetings-and-participation/upcoming-meetingsNone3. Any other businessNew reflectorhttp://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg19Old Reflectorhttps://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!newtopic/sg19<https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/sg14>Code and proposal Staging area4. Review4.1 Review and approve resolutions and issues [e.g., changes to SG'sworking draft]4.2 Review action items (5 min)5. Closing process5.1 Establish next agenda5.2 Future meeting* Jan 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Cancelled* Feb 13, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Hagenberg F2F; Cancelled* Mar 13, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* Apr 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Stats* May 8, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* June 12, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Sofia F2F, cancelled* July 10, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Stats* Aug 14, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* Sep 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: CPPCON, cancelled* Oct 9, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Stats* Nov 13, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Graph* Dec 11, 2025 02:00 PM ET: Stats