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Subject: Re: New Unicode Working Group: Message Formatting
From: Steven R. Loomis (srl295_at_[hidden])
Date: 2020-01-13 18:27:56


Keld,

> El ene. 12, 2020, a las 5:06 a. m., keld--- via SG16 <sg16_at_[hidden]> escribió:

> I have been woking with gettext for more than 20 years, and it is the core
> engine behind most linux i18n, and proven technology.

ICU’s and Java's message format is definitely proven technology in wide use. The select, gender, and pluralization support in ICU is very popular. The purpose of this new WG is to make recommendations as to the syntax of message formatting. It would be great to have participation from interested parties from SG16 as well as to consider the needs of gettext users.

> unicode is only unicode, and we need more than that.

Can you expand on “only unicode”?

To be clear, the working group in question is the Message Format Working Group, a subgroup of the Unicode CLDR (Common Locale Data Repository) TC.

Regards,

--
Steven R. Loomis | @srl295 | git.io/srl295
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 12:31:54PM +0100, Corentin Jabot wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 17:17, keld--- via SG16 <sg16_at_[hidden]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I woulld rather go gor the gettext formats, this is oroven technology used
>>> in many places,
>>> not some commitee new invention.
>>> 
>> 
>> I think you might underestimate the complexity of internationalization or
>> overestimate the capabilities of gettext.
>> Unicode people are often linguists or culture experts which is sorely
>> needed when trying to design these kinds of things.
>> 
>> More collaboration with Unicode would be a great thing!
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> keld
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 02:46:12PM -0800, Steven R. Loomis via SG16 wrote:
>>>> FYI. This might be of interest as far as std::format goes.
>>>> 
>>>> Steven, IBM/ICU
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Steven R. Loomis | @srl295 | git.io/srl295
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Inicio del mensaje reenviado:
>>>>> 
>>>>> De: announcements_at_[hidden]
>>>>> Asunto: New Unicode Working Group: Message Formatting
>>>>> Fecha: 10 de enero de 2020, 1:55:35 p. m. PST
>>>>> Para: announcements_at_[hidden]
>>>>> Responder a: root_at_[hidden]
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the challenges in adapting programs to work with different
>>> languages is message formatting. This is the process of formatting and
>>> inserting data values into messages in the user???s language. For example,
>>> ???The package will arrive at {time} on {date}??? could be translated into
>>> German as ???Das Paket wird am {date} um {time} geliefert???, and the
>>> particular {time} and {date} variables would be automatically formatted for
>>> German, and inserted in the right places.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Unicode Consortium has provided message formatting for some time
>>> via the ICU programming libraries and CLDR locale data repository. But
>>> until now we have not had a syntax for localizable message strings
>>> standardized by Unicode. Furthermore, the current ICU MessageFormat is
>>> relatively complex for existing operations, such as plural forms, and it
>>> does not scale well to other language properties, such as gender and
>>> inflections.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Unicode CLDR Technical Committee is formalizing a new working
>>> group to develop a technical specification for message format that
>>> addresses these issues. That working group is called the Message Format
>>> Working Group and is chaired by Romulo Cintra from CaixaBank. Other
>>> participants currently represented are Amazon, Dropbox, Facebook, Google,
>>> IBM, Mozilla, OpenJSF, and Paypal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For information on how to get involved, visit the working group???s
>>> GitHub page: https://github.com/unicode-org/message-format-wg <
>>> https://github.com/unicode-org/message-format-wg>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Open discussions will take place on GitHub, and written notes will be
>>> posted after every meeting.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Over 130,000 characters are available for adoption <
>>> http://unicode.org/consortium/adopt-a-character.html>, to help the
>>> Unicode Consortium???s work on digitally disadvantaged languages.
>>>>> 
>>>>> <http://unicode.org/consortium/adopt-a-character.html>
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://blog.unicode.org/2020/01/new-unicode-working-group-message.html
>>> <http://blog.unicode.org/2020/01/new-unicode-working-group-message.html>
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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