I apologize if I misunderstood.

Add "In my opinion" to all my statements, too.

On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 3:22 PM Oliver Rosten <oliver.rosten@googlemail.com> wrote:

About teaching approaches, there are many. Do not assume that your approach (or may approach) is the only one.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I've made this assumption. What I wrote was liberally qualified with things like "I think" and "In my opinion" 

On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 at 14:18, JOSE DANIEL GARCIA SANCHEZ <josedaniel.garcia@uc3m.es> wrote:

There is a tiny detail.

The one who writes the contract might have not any control at all about whether observe is used or not with that contract.

About teaching approaches, there are many. Do not assume that your approach (or may approach) is the only one.

For what is worth I also do a lot of teaching both at University level and In-company training in different domains. I do not know if 25 years of teaching qualify as huge, or not.

On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 3:12 PM Oliver Rosten <oliver.rosten@googlemail.com> wrote:

As someone who does a huge amount of teaching, I'm not sure I share the concerns about the teachability of Observe.

Indeed, I think the zeroth order teaching concern is getting people to understand that (in my opinion) Contracts as a whole are a tool to be used judiciously.

If you're thinking of using Contracts without ever having thought propeply about whether your functions have wide or narrow contracts (plenty never have, in my experience) don't start rolling it out across your code base.

If you have given this thought before, or start thinking about it, then work out where contracts are appropriate.

Treat Observe as an expert-level feature. Only consider using it when you have some confidence that you know what you're doing.

In a different, but related thread, Louis gave a great example of how to use Observe effectively when you have the expertise to do so.

O.

On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 at 13:53, JOSE DANIEL GARCIA SANCHEZ via SG21 <sg21@lists.isocpp.org> wrote:

Some degree of consensus does not prevent problems arising in production code.

On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 2:00 PM René Ferdinand Rivera Morell <grafikrobot@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 6:37 AM JOSE DANIEL GARCIA SANCHEZ via SG15 <sg15@lists.isocpp.org> wrote:

About concern 10 (aka ES-047), please note that saying we discussed this before does not solve the problem.

It shows that the choice was made by consensus.

--

-- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell
-- Don't Assume Anything  -- No Supongas Nada
-- Robot Dreams - http://robot-dreams.net

_______________________________________________
SG21 mailing list
SG21@lists.isocpp.org
Subscription: https://lists.isocpp.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/sg21
Link to this post: http://lists.isocpp.org/sg21/2025/10/11330.php