+1

especially this "Your suggestion that parsing C++ becomes easier is
unrealistic wishful thinking. Implementations will still need to parse
C++11, and C++03. Adding more punctuators doesn't simplify the language,
it gives the language more options."

That's the N+1 problem

On 4/15/2021 5:55 AM, Ville Voutilainen via Liaison wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 11:44, Jens Gustedt via Liaison
> <liaison_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>> So I am very eager to hear your opinion about *technical* difficulties
>> with this, but I'd also very much appreciate if we could not expand
>> this to a general culture war about personal preferences, other
>> languages than English in sources, or the keys that you have on your
>> keyboard.
> Whether I and people from other locales different from mine can edit
> C++ code reasonably
> swiftly seems to me like a technical difficulty. Whether they can have
> a common understanding
> of the code when it inevitably needs to be internationally co-authored
> by people with very different language
> backgrounds and keyboard layouts seems to me like a technical difficulty.
>
> Your suggestion that parsing C++ becomes easier is unrealistic wishful
> thinking. Implementations will
> still need to parse C++11, and C++03. Adding more punctuators doesn't
> simplify the language, it
> gives the language more options.
>
> Which is not always an obvious benefit.
>
> On this part:
> "Imagine in 32 years from now people would still not be able to use normal
> technical characters in their preferred programming language."
> Yeah. That's where we are now, and have been for 50 years, considering
> that APL has been an option
> for that long. There have also been "literal programming" environments
> where the "normal technical characters"
> can be used, and environments where it's possible to never see their
> mapped representations in raw source
> code, like programming in the IDE of, say, Mathematica.
>
> None of that has changed the complete dominance of programming
> languages where you can't use
> the "normal technical characters".
>
> I don't buy the suggested benefits of this. I think it also lacks a
> serious look at what the downsides would be.
> I'm sure you can implement this stuff in a parser without any trouble,
> but the problems start when you start
> deploying the result, and evolving/maintaining it. I don't consider
> that a "culture war", I consider that
> very much a technical problem.
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